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Actual Results of Crimean Secession Vote Leaked

timothy posted about 7 months ago | from the not-quite-as-advertised dept.

Stats 557

An anonymous reader writes "Forbes reported on Monday that The President of Russia's Council on Civil Society and Human Rights very briefly and supposedly by accident posted the actual results of the Crimean secession vote. According to the blog post, which has since been taken down, only 30% of Crimeans participated in the vote instead of the 83% participation officially advertised by Russia, and of that 30% only half voted for secession, which means that 15% of all Crimeans voted for secession rather than the 82% officially reported by Russia. There is no way for this claim to be verified as no foreign observers were allowed during the voting process. The vote is reportedly being conducted again during the 'May 11 referendum on the status of the so-called People's Republic of Donetsk.'" We've had a lot of discussion over the years about election methods and transparency; it would be interesting to hear from Ukranian readers in particular on this topic.

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well (2, Funny)

Keruo (771880) | about 7 months ago | (#46930255)

Crimea=Florida
But who's counting..

Re:well (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930295)

Gore lost on every recount. Get over it.

Re:well (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930315)

In Putin's Crimea chad hangs you!

Re:well (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930563)

In Putin's Crimea chad hangs you!

Putin is the new Hitler.

Hitler started with arming himself, Putin started by disarming Ukraine (Ukraine had loads of nuclear weapons before they stupidly let Putin take them away)
Hitler became very popular through tyranny, Putin became very popular by presenting himself as the Russian Chuck Norris.
Hitler could not care less about his own people, Putin puts his opponents in prison and gulachs.
Hitler invaded Poland, Putin invaded Ukraine

Putin's next step will be to "liberate" more parts of the former Soviet Union. He is a world-class terrorist that needs to be dealt with the same way as Osama Bin Laden.

Re:well (-1, Flamebait)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | about 7 months ago | (#46930683)

Ukrainian new unelected leadership is more like Hitler. Close to far right groups which in many western European countries would be banned as neo-nazis. Came to power through coup. Aggressively moved right away to abolish equal rights for Russian and Russian-speaking population who make up almost half the country.

Ukraine is a split country, half pro western, half pro Russian. The Ukrainian new government with assistance of NATO is trying to bulldoze over the pro-Russian half and present them as aliens and invaders in their own country. Russia has no choice but to get involved.

Re:well (4, Insightful)

ericloewe (2129490) | about 7 months ago | (#46930853)

[Citation Needed]

Re:well (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930929)

You really need to more work in educating yourself beyond what Putin tells you to post.

Re:well (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 7 months ago | (#46930941)

If the actual poll results are true, it suggest Ukraine is not that divided fundamentally at all, and that a small group of pro-Russian agitators lead by Russian military personnel out of uniform are creating this civil war.

Re:well (2, Insightful)

scubamage (727538) | about 7 months ago | (#46930781)

Russia is seeing a country that is essentially on the brink of civil war right next to its borders. On top of that, that country happens to control many of the major resource pipelines into and out of Russia. They have a vested interest in keeping Ukraine stable. Do you expect that the US would do any differently if Juarez or Tijuana truly became a Narco-stronghold? Don't rush so quickly to judge. The media on both sides of the pond spins the story to make their respective side look good.

Re:well (4, Insightful)

PortHaven (242123) | about 7 months ago | (#46930889)

Mexico is a country on our border that's been near at civil war and a drug and crime mecca. So um, yes...we haven't invaded Mexico....(not sure on vice-versa)

Re:well (3, Insightful)

scubamage (727538) | about 7 months ago | (#46931039)

Not so fast. [npr.org] We have aided Mexico militarily by sending special forces for training, and also bringing Mexican troops to the US for training. Russia itself has not invaded Ukraine. Russian loyalists however have occupied several government buildings/regions because they're not a fan of the Pro-NATO, Pro-West stance taken by the Kieven government. I'm not going to say Russia is entirely innocent here, after all there were supposedly photos of Russian special forces training Eastern Ukrainians [cbsnews.com] , but that behavior is nearly the same as what the US has done with Mexico in the drug war. We picked the side we liked and benefitted us the most, we gave them equipment and training, and told the other side that if they spill over our borders we will christen them with hellfire missiles.

Re:well (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930971)

Do you expect that the US would do any differently if Juarez or Tijuana truly became a Narco-stronghold?

Pretty sure they are already, and the US is doing fuck-all about it.

Re:well (5, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | about 7 months ago | (#46931013)

They have a vested interest in keeping Ukraine stable.

So why are Russian troops and Russian-trained operatives fomenting the unrest we're seeing? Don't you think Russia would want Ukraine to avoid what's going on? Why lie about ethnic Russians supposedly being targeted when they could provide not a single shred of evidence to show this was happening?

Russia started this because the people of Ukraine got fed up being used as a pawn by Russia and all the corruption their former leader was doing. That is why they opened up his former residence to show where the Ukrainian people's money was really going instead of for roads, electricity, etc.

Russia is the one who is causing the problem and the lies of the Crimean vote show the reality of the situation. Putin has become a modern day Stalin, though without the gulags. From dictatorial control of the media, the false imprisonment of political rivals and those who oppose his authoritarian rule, manipulating vote counts and election qualifications, goon squads to rough up and kill opponents, he has taken Stalin's playbook and updated it for the modern era.

Re:well (1, Flamebait)

greenwow (3635575) | about 7 months ago | (#46930467)

No, he won every recount. That was the entire fucking point behind having the crooks in the SCOTUS appoint Bush Jr as President. If Gore hadn't won, why would the Republicans have needed the scum in the SCOTUS? It's just logical, but of course you Bush junta supports aren't smart enough to figure that out. That's why you support their kind in the first place. Gore won every recount.

Re:well (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930587)

No dipshit, he lost according to the rules he insisted upon during the recount, and won according to the ones Bush insisted upon. But it doesn't matter a damn now, so quit fucking whinging about it.

Re:well (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930669)

Wow. You really are never going to get over it. This stuff isn't new in the US, and JFK won in 1960 thanks almost entirely to the Daley family in Chicago. Nixon new it, and one of the handful of decent things he ever did was to let it go.

ALL recounts showed Bush winning by a larger margin but Gore and his team of lawyers won't let it go. SCOTUS got involved at the request of Gore. He wouldn't let it go... just like you won't let it go.

Re:well (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46931005)

I wonder if diebold in ohio would agree with you. Cover up is an understatement.

Re:well (3, Informative)

SensitiveMale (155605) | about 7 months ago | (#46930471)

Gore lost on every recount. Get over it.

Yes, every single one. Don't forget that Gore tried to goose the results by having only Dem heavy counties recounted rather than the entire state.

One last thing that just about no one knows about. All of the major news outlets proclaimed Florida to Gore before voting was finished in Florida. Florida resides in two time zones and the northwest "handle" of Florida is heavily Republican. Many voters left lines while voting was open once Florida was called for Gore. IF that hadn't have happened, the recount wouldn't have been close at all.

Re:well (1)

mooingyak (720677) | about 7 months ago | (#46930569)

Gore lost on every recount. Get over it.

Yes, every single one. Don't forget that Gore tried to goose the results by having only Dem heavy counties recounted rather than the entire state.

One last thing that just about no one knows about. All of the major news outlets proclaimed Florida to Gore before voting was finished in Florida. Florida resides in two time zones and the northwest "handle" of Florida is heavily Republican. Many voters left lines while voting was open once Florida was called for Gore. IF that hadn't have happened, the recount wouldn't have been close at all.

As I recall, the Bush camp wanted one recount method, and the Gore camp wanted a different one, and under the rules they each proposed, the other side would have won.

Re:well (1)

PIBM (588930) | about 7 months ago | (#46930573)

They are allowed to start counting the votes before the voting ends ??? We only spawn 5.5 time zones but that`s still not allowed and well enforced.

Networks (1)

Etherwalk (681268) | about 7 months ago | (#46930699)

They are allowed to start counting the votes before the voting ends ??? We only spawn 5.5 time zones but that`s still not allowed and well enforced.

They generally are, although it's up to the particular state. More importantly, the *exit polls*, which are not the actual vote but in which people say who they voted for, come out relatively quickly and can influence later voting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E... [wikipedia.org]

Media... (1)

PortHaven (242123) | about 7 months ago | (#46930909)

Does what it bloody well pleases.

Re:well (4, Insightful)

n1ywb (555767) | about 7 months ago | (#46930623)

One last thing that just about no one knows about. All of the major news outlets proclaimed Florida to Gore before voting was finished in Florida. Florida resides in two time zones and the northwest "handle" of Florida is heavily Republican. Many voters left lines while voting was open once Florida was called for Gore. IF that hadn't have happened, the recount wouldn't have been close at all.

If that's really true, well, those folks who walked out have nobody to blame but themselves.

Re:well (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930837)

IF one of the more liberal areas of Florida didn't add negative votes for Gore [wikipedia.org] it might have made a difference too. There are a number of local rumors floating around that physical ballot boxes "ended up in the Halifax River" too according to locals, but we'll leave rumors aside and stick to just the "Volusia Error" as an example of voting anomalies in the I-4 corridor since it is well documented. The Panhandle made no difference. Keep in mind few people live in the panhandle that are actually in Central time and vote in Florida. The voting recounts were due to anomalies in metropolitan left-leaning areas, and to set the record straight Gore wanted a Statewide recount but the court ruling was that it wasn't required [wikipedia.org] .

Re:well (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930977)

Yes, every single one

Except for the statewide recount carried out as a partnership with several news agencies [wikipedia.org] after the SCOTUS terminated the official recount efforts. That one came out with Gore on top, and had Gore requested a statewide recount rather than recounting in only a few counties he probably would have won both numerically and by preventing the court challenge against his weird recounting efforts.

But you knew that, didn't you, liar troll?

In Soviet Ukraine.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930267)

In Soviet Ukraine, Soviets supply Ukrainian comments to you.

Again? (4, Insightful)

jbmartin6 (1232050) | about 7 months ago | (#46930273)

Given how many lies and half-truths have been circulated by the press about this, I am not sure I believe this at all.

Re:Again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930473)

Yeah man, it's much harder to believe this than the originally posted results.

Are you kidding me?

Re:Again? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930511)

Is it any easier though? Sure, the Russians are probably fiddling everything they can, but do you think the west isn't?

Re:Again? (3, Insightful)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | about 7 months ago | (#46930579)

It is, since it is well known that Crimea is heavily pro Russian. If you know anything about Crimea you would find it impossible to believe that they would vote to stay with Ukraine rather than join Russia or even that the result would be close like TFA claims.

Re:Again? (1)

PortHaven (242123) | about 7 months ago | (#46930925)

Cause it's large Tartar population, and 25% Ukrainian population wouldn't oppose. Heck, how many Russians oppose Putin in Russia. Just can get the guy unelected though.

Re:Again? (4, Insightful)

Nexus7 (2919) | about 7 months ago | (#46930605)

Most people in that region identify with Russia. They were looking at an EU austerity regime vs free money from Russia.

Yeah, I find the original results easier to believe.

Re:Again? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930685)

The results of Crimea is not hard to believe. They had similar referendum with just as much support for Russia in the past. They voted in overwhelming majority to support greater autonomy and dual citizenship with Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_1994

Note the date: 1994. No imaginary Russian troops to allegedly pressure Crimeans.

Obama ain't fooling anyone with his propaganda. Sorry.

Re:Again? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930561)

Obama's trying really hard to discredit Russia.

Even before Ukraine, Obama was telling everyone that terrorists will attack Russia. He even sent military ships to the area to scare people. No terrorist attacks on Sochi happened.

Then Obama started whipping up a frenzy about everyone being hacked in Sochi. He had his propaganda team run a "story" on NBC. This was debunked by many communities online.

Then Obama had his goons hand out fliers claiming that Jews need to register now and provide a $50 fee along with their family history. Another lie that was laid to rest by the Jewish communities. However, not before Obama's media had a field day with it. Even Kerry was parroting the lie during his meetings with Russia.

Obama's media eventually came out with blurry pictures of bearded men and claimed the connection to Russian special forces. NY Times ran a whole story on it. However, the story contradicted itself, the photos didn't match, and the whole thing was ridiculed to the point of NY Times quietly backing down.

Now Obama's trying to discredit Crimea's vote, a week before another referendum is to be held in eastern Ukraine, by claiming the whole thing was rigged. His evidence? Some nonexisting blog post which was supposedly leaked by Putin's administration.

Sorry, Barry. Not buying it.

Re:Again? (1)

bobbied (2522392) | about 7 months ago | (#46930775)

Given how many lies and half-truths have been circulated by the press

Ahh... Just stop there and you got it...

probably censored (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930293)

*due to possible dissent in this comment, it has been altered for the good of the greater Ukraine*

come on, this is RUSSIA (5, Funny)

alen (225700) | about 7 months ago | (#46930299)

Edward Snowden fled there to escape US tyranny

Re:come on, this is RUSSIA (5, Insightful)

Bacon Bits (926911) | about 7 months ago | (#46930405)

Sometimes the only person who stands up to a bully is another bully.

Re:come on, this is RUSSIA (1)

evilviper (135110) | about 7 months ago | (#46930559)

North Korea is probably a nice country, if you are in the leadership, or a VIP like Dennis Rodman, too.

I've considered taking my savings, and living like a king in some 3rd world shithole before, myself, too. That some people have it good, doesn't make it a nice place.

Re:come on, this is RUSSIA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930647)

Ah, but there's the rub. If you go live like a king in some lawless third world shithole, you'll be a tempting target for K&R, unless you hire armed bodyguards. And even then there are no guarantees that one of them might not decide to cross you.

Re:come on, this is RUSSIA (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46931059)

you'll be a tempting target for K&R,

First or second edition of K&R?

without any proof, this is just propaganda (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930309)

Something tells me that if the election was fraudulent, nobody would keep the "real" results.

Nice try, CIA, but you'll have to get up pretty early in the morning...

Truth is always the first casualty of war (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930317)

No one will ever know what the 'actual' vote was. All that matters is who has the bigger stick.

Re:Truth is always the first casualty of war (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 7 months ago | (#46930687)

All that matters is who has the bigger stick.

But we need to know if 51% of the people want to clobber other other 49% with that stick so it will be fair!

We love Mother Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930331)

And want to be one with her, stupid meddling pig dogs!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwbpImkRX9M

Same as other countries (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930333)

Most countries use a "first past the post" method of cheating you out of your vote. Take Canada for instance. Way less than half the people *that voted*, actually voted for the party in power. Yet the current party in power rules as if they have a mandate from an overwhelming majority of people. Why bother voting at all?

Re:Same as other countries (3, Insightful)

sharknado (3217097) | about 7 months ago | (#46930523)

Why bother voting at all?

Because we have to maintain the illusion of a democracy, that's why.

Re:Same as other countries (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46931019)

Table of voting systems by country [wikipedia.org]

FPTP is more common than it should be considering that there are much better voting systems, but luckily most countries use something else for their elections.

Source? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930351)

Can someone provide an actual source of this report? Surely someone must have the page cached.

50% of votes with 30% voter turnout (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930367)

American presidents have been democratically elected with less support.

Soviet Crimea (0)

NotFamous (827147) | about 7 months ago | (#46930387)

In Soviet Crimea, elections vote for you!

In-window popup autoplaying video ads with sound? (3, Insightful)

Dachannien (617929) | about 7 months ago | (#46930403)

Seriously, DICE? I'm sitting here looking at the first few comments, hoping for a little clarity and maybe even some insightful discussion - you know, Slashdot style - when the window contents scroll up and a video ad, with sound, starts playing.

I am done with this piece of shit website. How do I delete my account?

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930517)

Seriously, DICE? I'm sitting here looking at the first few comments, hoping for a little clarity and maybe even some insightful discussion - you know, Slashdot style - when the window contents scroll up and a video ad, with sound, starts playing.

I am done with this piece of shit website. How do I delete my account?

I'm not getting any ads, but I'm running Firefox and NoScript....

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930543)

You're a Slashdot user. How can you possibly be so Internet-illiterate as to not be running an ad-blocker?

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (5, Informative)

scubamage (727538) | about 7 months ago | (#46930649)

Why do you need an ad-blocker on slashdot? If you have great karma from being a good member of the community they give you the option to disable all advertising. Just post constructively and no adblocker is necessary.

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (2)

cdrudge (68377) | about 7 months ago | (#46930795)

Why do you need an ad-blocker on slashdot?

Because it's far more convenient to presume that EVERY site has ads and just run an adblocker on every site then it is to not run one and have to enable it when you visit a site that has them.

Any time I use a computer that's not my own I cringe when I visit a site I frequent and realize how awful the internet is with ads enabled.

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (1)

scubamage (727538) | about 7 months ago | (#46930875)

Fair enough. Other than privacy implications i largely never bother with blocking ads (I don't mind vendors/content creators getting revenue from my using their services) unless I have a good reason. When i don't want to be tracked, tor+foxyproxy+adblock. I guess it all comes down to your tolerance of advertising :)

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930831)

You seem to be implying that everyone is always on a computer which they are allowed to modify in any way.

A LOT of people read this site at work you know.
And many people have gotten promoted hard.

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (1)

sharknado (3217097) | about 7 months ago | (#46930551)

How do I delete my account?

You could edit all your posts and write "copyright 2014" then issue Slashdot a DMCA notice. But that might not work.

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930603)

Start using a pop up blocker, hosts file to block unwanted ads.

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930627)

Crimea river. Just use an ad blocker!!

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930765)

Insightful discussion on Slashdot? That'd be new.

Re:In-window popup autoplaying video ads with soun (1)

Arith (708986) | about 7 months ago | (#46930793)

I'm with you here. The others are right, adblockers, noscript, that whole noise is a good idea.
I'm at work, where I haven't gotten around to patching up my browser with the aforementioned. Definitely alot more ads roaming around. If I saw that video ad I'd be just as disgusted. So .. get yourself them plugins. You get this .. uh.. 'discussion' without the obnoxiousness..well not from the ads anyway.

Oh please (0)

greenwow (3635575) | about 7 months ago | (#46930415)

This is yet another reattempt by the Republicans to restart the Cold War. They want to terrorize children in order to try to get their parents' vote. That is their way.

History lesson (5, Interesting)

DaveAtFraud (460127) | about 7 months ago | (#46930421)

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”

  Joseph Stalin

Sounds like Putin has studied history.

Math is not an opinion (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930431)

In my opinion and math, those numbers make no sense.

Re:Math is not an opinion (1)

sharknado (3217097) | about 7 months ago | (#46930771)

I would say that math can indeed be an opinion. Much (most) of modern physics is based on math, and there is a lot of debate as to how mathematical models translate into the "real world". String theory is one example...some people believe it's real, some don't.

Of course, you don't have to get THAT complex to start seeing strange behaviours. For example, did you know that the sum of all positive integers (1 + 2 + 3) is -1/12? http://www.numberphile.com/vid... [numberphile.com] Do you agree with this result?

Re:Math is not an opinion (1)

bobbied (2522392) | about 7 months ago | (#46930807)

Figures never lie, but lairs figure..

US elections are rigged too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930445)

so stfu, whiners

Re:US elections are rigged too (1)

bobbied (2522392) | about 7 months ago | (#46930835)

Citation please? There IS fraud in US elections, no question about that, but not enough to call them "rigged". (And I'm a right wing type who's side has been loosing elections a lot lately.)

Misleading (2)

WiglyWorm (1139035) | about 7 months ago | (#46930475)

The vote had 30% turnout. ~50% voted to be annexed. Thus 15% of the population voted yes, but ~50% of the VOTE was for annexation. Of course, going to go vote no while the russians are sitting around in your country with guns and amassed on the border couldn't be an easy decision.

Re:Misleading (1)

jonnythan (79727) | about 7 months ago | (#46930745)

You'd think it would take more than a simple majority to secede from your country.....

Re:Misleading (1)

radarskiy (2874255) | about 7 months ago | (#46930863)

Ask South Carolina. They did not even bother with a plebiscite.

Re:Misleading (1)

fermion (181285) | about 7 months ago | (#46930777)

The key for an election, in the modern sense, is that everyone who is allowed to vote vote is equally able to vote in a way that will not result in individual retaliation for a vote. We don't know if that happened in this case, to a lesser or greater extent than anywhere else. In the US voting is an equal struggle. Many have had to vote for suffrage, and some are having road blocks added to keep them from equal access. Also for off year elections 30% is not such a low number in the US. Yes if we talk about registered voters, the numbers can be closer to 50%, but it sounds like in this case we are talking about a case where everyone can vote. Often only 30-40% of the voting age population in the US votes on off cycle elections. Add to that that about 1-2% of the voting age citizen population is ineligible for some reason.

Re:Misleading (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930919)

The question of the referendum was posed as:
[ ] Do you support Crimea joining Russian Federation?
[ ] Do you support Crimea returning to its 1992 constitution and being part of Ukraine?
Exactly one box must have been ticked for the ballot to be considered valid. Under the 1992 constitution Crimea was almost an independent state, with its own diplomatic relations etc, and it would have the power to secede from Ukraine anyway. So there was no option for status quo, no option to vote "no" at all, the only way to express such opinion was to boycott the referendum.

It's as though the referendum was "Mind if Crimea joins Russia?" -- "OK" / "No, I don't mind".

Re:Misleading (2)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about 7 months ago | (#46931031)

but ~50% of the VOTE was for annexation.

Yeah, but never mind that there was no option to stay in the Ukraine like a significant fraction of the population voted. The entire thing was rotten end to end.

Observers (3, Informative)

evilviper (135110) | about 7 months ago | (#46930477)

OSCE observers were invited, but the organization declined. Somewhere around 100 international observers from other organizations were present. They might have mostly been Russian schills, but they were there.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

Why compare different ratios? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930487)

only 30% of Crimeans participated in the vote instead of the 83% participation officially advertised by Russia

Maybe 64% of the population is under voting age?

Stalin's quote about voting is always true (0)

SensitiveMale (155605) | about 7 months ago | (#46930495)

'It doesn't matter who votes, it matters who counts the votes.'

The propaganda wars begin (2)

joe_frisch (1366229) | about 7 months ago | (#46930503)

There really is no way to know what is real and what isn't with propaganda machines going full out on both sides.

A vote during an armed conflict, seems legit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930509)

War is popping off in Slavyansk and elsewhere all around the area... how exactly does anyone expect a free or fair election in a week's time?

That seems as fanciful as calling a 2 party grind a "democracy"

And I'd argue... (1)

PortHaven (242123) | about 7 months ago | (#46930979)

That we do not even have two parties. Just two names for the same party. So we can be given something to yell at...

No international observers? (4, Informative)

Richard_at_work (517087) | about 7 months ago | (#46930515)

You should tell the 30 strong team from Poland, Austria, France, Germany, Belgium, Bulgaria, Hungary, Greece, Italy and Latvia that they weren't there...

No tensions in Ukraine’s autonomous republic of Crimea were reported by the team of international observers Saturday, as they started monitoring polling stations and readying for the crucial vote on the peninsula’s independence.

Thirty observers, who come from 10 European nations, have arrived in Crimea at the invitation of the republic's election commission and have already started their work, Mateusz Piskorski, the director of the European Geopolitical Analysis Centre and the mission coordinator, said.

“At the moment we are starting to monitor the preparation of polling stations. In general, the situation is very calm, there is no tension,” he told Interfax news agency. “Everyone hopes there will be no provocations."

Members of the mission come from Poland, Austria, France, Germany, Belgium, Bulgaria, Hungary, Greece, Italy and Latvia. Representing the European Democracy and Election Monitoring Institute (Brussels), they are deputies from the European parliament, members of national parliaments of their native countries, as well as leading European international law experts and famous human rights activists.

http://rt.com/news/crimea-refe... [rt.com]

Re:No international observers? (5, Informative)

wooppp (921578) | about 7 months ago | (#46930701)

Except that from http://www.theguardian.com/wor... [theguardian.com] ------- No major international organisations are monitoring the vote, but a group of observers from 23 countries – a mixture of anti-western ideologues and European far-right politicians – have arrived of their own accord and gave a press conference in Simferopol on Saturday evening. ------- I ain't sure whether some readers understand the implication of the Ukraine issue now, of which Putin is using the same strategy as in the Russo-Georgian War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_war) that ultimately led to ethnic cleansing. There will be lots of blood.

Lies. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930529)

All made up and the person they've given as source denies all knowledge.
Clearly a desperate attempt at misinformation/propaganda by a 3 letter agency.

Who stands to gain? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930599)

The source, a blog posting, is not at all credible and the fact that its even newsworthy indicates it is being pushed by propaganda. Who stands to gain?

According to what I have read (sorry i didn't bookmark the source) and in my conversations with people from the area, it is very understandable that the people of Crimea would have voted to join Russia. We get the NATO side of the propaganda over here.

All about the Eurasian Union (5, Insightful)

bigpat (158134) | about 7 months ago | (#46930679)

There is a blatant information war going on on both sides of this.

Here is basically what is going on:

  1. 1) US/EU has been actively trying to keep Russia from forming an Eurasian Union with some of the members of the former Soviet Union. (most probably because the people running US/EU foreign policy grew up with the Soviet Union and are afraid of repeating the cold war)
  2. 2) Russia pressured/bribed Ukraine to move towards the Russia side after a brief foray towards the EU.
  3. 3) The EU/US fomented an overthrow of the government in Ukraine probably facilitated by covert operations in order to prevent the Eurasian Union from coming together with Ukraine as its economic crossroad to Europe.
  4. 4) Russia tried to salvage something out of this collapse of the pro-Russian government by grabbing Crimea with its majority Russian population.
  5. 5) Russia is now fomenting separatists in Eastern Ukraine using the same tactics the CIA used in Kiev and the US/EU doesn't like it.

....

Next) Either Russia invades and annexes Eastern Ukraine following the Crimea model or they simply foment separatism which either succeeds in splitting the country or causes a bloody crackdown by Kiev which further de-legitimizes that interim government.

- Probably China is cheer leading this US/EU/Russia split on because if the EU and Russia are forced further apart, then it forces resource rich Russia towards China which needs all the wood/oil/natural gas/mining that Russia has to offer to sustain its manufacturing economy and China doesn't want a strong Eurasian Union coming together either. This has already started with announcements of greater cooperation with China.

I think the bitter irony in all this is that the foreign policy leaders in the West that are so afraid of repeating the Cold War are precipitating something like it now because of that fear. Russia has every right to be concerned that it is stuck between a growing EU and China and that it needs to build up its own alliance in the middle. Their historical lesson is that a Europe united under Germany is a threat. It seems to me that the EU and US are being very shortsighted to have undercut Putin so blatantly and overtly in Ukraine. The US and EU needs a strong Russia and something like a Eurasian Alliance to counterbalance China to the East. If anything the EU should have invited Russia to join it to form an even greater Union that would be a direct counterbalance to China instead of just leaving Russia as a buffer state.

Have any idea what you are talking about? (2)

Zeorge (1954266) | about 7 months ago | (#46930823)

Sounds like you are playing a video or board game. Any ways, so many other countries from the "eastern block" have joined or are on their way to be part of the EU. Russia doesn't want to as it has its own resources and its own oligarchy in place and those people don't want to impact their lifestyle. That whole country is an oligarchy of monopolies that permeates everything from food to infrastructure. They'd have to give that up to join the EU.

Re:All about the Eurasian Union (3, Insightful)

ericloewe (2129490) | about 7 months ago | (#46930939)

3) Deserves a massive [Citation Needed] sticker. The only covert operations of which there is any proof is the massive Russian involvement.

82% was always suspect (1)

jd.schmidt (919212) | about 7 months ago | (#46930695)

In addition to the massive difficulty in running an honest vote on such short notice, I have never found 82% of humans to ever agree on something so controversial. When I heard that number it was obviously and blatantly fake, even if a majority of people wanted to rejoin Russia there was no way that many people would agree to such a radical change.

Re:82% was always suspect (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930829)

Terribad logic.

Crimea had similar referendum with just as much support for Russia in the past. They voted in overwhelming majority to support greater autonomy and dual citizenship with Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_1994

And this was in 1994 and there were no imaginary Russian troops to allegedly pressure Crimeans into voting a certain way.

Re:82% was always suspect (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930985)

So we're clear, it was reported that 97% of the voting population voted to be annexed. Also, voting for autonomy and voting to be annexed by another country are fairly different animals.

Re:82% was always suspect (1)

ericloewe (2129490) | about 7 months ago | (#46930961)

I suspect the whole thing was just some theatrical performance for Russian internal consumption. Nobody who's been through a decent number of truly democratic elections would believe such a result.

Last time, someone pointed out that it did happen at least once for a democratic vote to yield a 80-something% result, but it's certainly the exception.

So what (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930735)

In the last American Presidential election only 65.9 million people voted for the winner out of a population of 313 million, thats only 20.7% and a turn out of only 40%. Crimea's numbers aren't to far off that. They only thing here is that Russia might have lied about the results. Succession still won mind you, they just lied about how well it won.

Why are people acting surpised? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930841)

There is no such thing as "Pro Russian Militants" or pro-Russian anything.

Russia is a corrupt cleptocracy run by criminals. The Ukraine is being annexed on the behalf of a handful of Putin's ultra-rich backers that sit to make untold billions off of the natural resources they can exploit there. (Or ship through there via a pipeline)

They failed at their attempt to usurp the government when the citizens wised up to what was going on. Facing the threat of the area joining the EU and cutting them out of much of the lucrative natural gas profits, they simply dropped all pretenses and are trying to take the place by force.

Fortunately Russia is effectively a failed state. So corrupt and screwed up that less than a month's worth of economic sanctions are making their house of cards criminal-run economy crater. Putin is also a bit of a coward. He'll give up in a few more months when his buddies who are no longer making money hand over fist start thinking about replacing him.

Re:Why are people acting surpised? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46930993)

You don't really know what you're talking about.

Forbes NOT reporting (4, Interesting)

radarskiy (2874255) | about 7 months ago | (#46931001)

This is an op-ed column, not a news article. Many news organization disclaim all fact-checking on op-eds; I don't know Forbes' specific policy.

NSA psy-ops 'action' posted as 'news' on Slashdot (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46931041)

Hilarious. The US Intelligence Agency flashes a fake web-site post online, and then informs all its tame journalistic outlets (of which Slashdot is one- since 'portals' count as 'Drudge Report' proves) to cover the 'revelation'.

Is there anyone here so moronic, so naive, so criminally committed to the works of Team Obama, they they don't immediately puke at the stench of yet another crude PSY-OP?

The last one had the NYT, using photos provided by the US State Department, 'proving' that Russian special forces from the Georgia War were operating in the Ukraine. Even the BBC was so humiliated by the crudeness of the psy-op, that it posted a story debunking the obvious fakery. The NYT had published purposely fuzzy and low resolution versions of crystal clear images. When the BBC published the ORIGINAL, un-fuzzed photos, the claims that the people in both sets of photos being the same was clearly an hilarious lie. But a lie the owners of Slashdot pushed here at the time, just as with this garbage about Crimea.

Here's a fact for you regulars. A few weeks ago, the neo-Nazis of Kiev, the same people the USA helped overthrow the democratically elected government of Ukraine, went to the offices of Ukraine's State run 'BBC' equivalent national TV broadcast service, and tortured the head of their 'BBC' into writing a letter of resignation. We know this, because amazingly, Obama's neo-Nazis filmed themselves, and put the video online. The owners of Slashdot very carefully BANNED this fact from being promoted here. But it gets worse.

The news organisations of the West barely covered this atrocity, but where they did so, it was to state that the rulers of the coup government deplored this attack against the head of their 'BBC'. Funny that, because a few days later, Obama's illegal coup government ACCEPTED the letter of resignation- that letter signed under torture and threat of execution. The action of Obama's coup government in co-operating with the appalling assault on the head of their 'BBC' got ZERO coverage in the mainstream media of the West- and you'd certainly never see that story promoted on Slashdot.

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