Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Venezuelan Regime Censoring Twitter

timothy posted about 6 months ago | from the workers'-paradise dept.

Twitter 152

First time accepted submitter Saúl González D. writes "After two days of massive protests, the Venezuelan government has finally taken to censoring Twitter. Users of Venezuela's largest ISP CANTV, which is owned by the government, are reporting that either Twitter-embedded images will not load or that Twitter will fail to load at all. I am a user myself and can confirm that only Twitter is affected and that switching to the Tor browser solves the issue. As news of the protests are not televised, for most Venezuelans Twitter and Facebook are their only means of obtaining real-time information.
Despite a progressive worsening of civil and human rights, governments of the world have shied away from directly labeling Maduro a dictator or demanding the OAS' Democratic Charter be activated. Will open censorship be the tipping point?"

cancel ×

152 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253789)

Sí, sí, en Venezuela hay MUCHO MUCHO PETROLEO!

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (3, Funny)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about 6 months ago | (#46253803)

It's all good though because its nationalized. Nationalized means it goes to THE PEOPLE! Right? After all, we all know that when people can vote themselves entitlements, they never abuse them.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (5, Informative)

Trepidity (597) | about 6 months ago | (#46253819)

Works pretty well in Norway! Its nationalized oil sector sends the majority of oil profits to the state-run National Oil Fund, which has accumulated nearly $800 billion in assets to be used for the benefit of future generations of Norwegians.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253837)

Stop bringing facts into this! Socialism is bad. The shareholders of a private company would be a much better place for those hundreds of billions of dollars, and you know it. The yacht & McMansion construction industry won't support itself, you know!

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253879)

Precisely. The directors of Statoil aren't paid peanuts. Aaaaand... the Norwegians learned the Dutch lesson that windfalls cannot be used to fund anything but a rainy-day rsserve because of TCO issues. And... 34% of Statoil belongs to private shareholders; it is listed in the NYSE. And socialism still sucks, But since its a matter of faith, go on believing.

(And no, Obamacare isn't socialist; nor anything of what he proposes, so get off his ass)

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254593)

Stop bringing facts into this! Socialism is bad.

Yeah, it's definitely the because of socialism that Norway is sitting on enough oil and gas to fuel most of Europe. Let's vote for commies, and we'll have oil like them!

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253891)

Works pretty well in Norway! Its nationalized oil sector sends the majority of oil profits to the state-run National Oil Fund, which has accumulated nearly $800 billion in assets to be used for the benefit of future generations of Norwegians.

Yeah that's generally when socialism does work: a small relatively homogeneous nation of people. Not like the USA at all.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1, Insightful)

Sique (173459) | about 6 months ago | (#46254119)

This is what I would call a reverse no true scotsman falacy. You make a general statement ("Socialism doesn't work"), and if someone points out an example where the statement is obviously false, you invent an ad hoc exception ("Norway is a small, relatively homogeneous nation").

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (3, Insightful)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 6 months ago | (#46254197)

Yeah, yeah, my people did the seizing so it's all good.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | about 6 months ago | (#46254787)

Stating that revenues from oil production concessions belong to "the people" instead of whomever gets there first or gets it out of the ground first is hardly socialism. Most countries, capitalist or otherwise, collect revenues from natural resources collected in that country, effectively establishing a part collective ownership.

Pissing away those revenues on bloated bureaucracies, pointless state programs and overly cushy social security, without any plans whatsoever on what to do when those revenues dry up, that is socialism. That's what the Netherlands did with its vast natural gas reserves; it's called the Dutch Disease (look it up), and Norway has learned from it.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (4, Insightful)

inhuman_4 (1294516) | about 6 months ago | (#46254427)

Except Norway did pretty much opposite of what Venezuela did.

Norway created a state company owned company (a crown corporation for those familiar with the British system) called Statoil. Using public funds the company established itself in Norway and around the world. Once the company got established it was turned into a public stock company (NYSE: STO). The Norwegian government remains the primary shareholder, however it is a public corporation run by the private sector for profit.

Venezuela brought in foreign established firms to provide the expertise and capital to exploit the country's natural resources and to aid in the development of the national oil company. Later a more socialist government decided that they didn't like the deal anymore and nationalized the foreign owned assets into the PDVSA, a government run enterprises.

The result is that Norway's oil industry is well coordinated and on friendly terms with other governments and oil companies. And frequently engages in joint ventures with other oil companies outside of Norway. Statoil is run for profit by via private sector mechanisms providing a good return on investment for the country, and is relatively free of corruption. The country's ownership of the controlling share of the corporation is treated like a long term asset for the benefit of future generations.

Venezuela has for it's part burned bridges with everyone who had previously invested in the country. Making it hard to expand outside the country, and more importantly attract foreign investment which could provide the expertise that Venezuela lacks. The PDVSA is rife with corruption providing cushy jobs to 'friends of the family' for various political players. The ROI for the people and government of Venezuela is much lower than it should be. And rather than treating it's ownership of PDVSA as an investment (like Norway does with Statoil), they treat it like a cash cow to fund various ill conceived economic plans.

Norway acted as a sole proprietor in a free market. Venezuela acted like the post-revolution communist governments of the last century.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254741)

Pre-Chavez, the governments of the day had granted foreign oil companies royalty rates of only 1%. one source:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article122495.html

Basically, the corrupt pre-Chavez government was giving the oil away to American billionaires, left with nothing for the people. Along comes Chavez and demands that the country gets some revenue for the oil. He then poured this money into development.

No wonder he is hated by the USA.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 6 months ago | (#46254753)

Just wait until an American court awards PDVSA's American refineries to the oil companies that PDVSA robbed in Venezuela. Then you will hear a great gnashing of teeth, as commies heads explode. Capitalists will expropriate for a change.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254721)

Works pretty well in Norway!

And?

Societies and cultures are not some homogenous group. What works for one will lead to the absolute worst case scenario for another. The sooner we wake up and realize that, the better off humanity will be.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46255191)

"Raaaaacisssst!!"

--An Enlightened Progressive.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (0)

FriendlyLurker (50431) | about 6 months ago | (#46253965)

Wrong bogeyman - It's all good (as in a "progressive worsening of civil and human rights/Censorship") because they are paying their international [mongabay.com] debt owed [tradingeconomics.com] , at the expense of civil and human rights. Venezuela is the only petro-state with a debt over 50% of the GDP [eluniversal.com] .

If the Venezuelans kicked out the corrupt, started nationalizing anything owned by foreign companies and/or stopped paying any odious international debts and started putting the inerests of common Venezuelans before their debt obligations, then suddenly civil and human rights and censorship would become an "issue" for the world to "label Maduro a dictator or demanding the OAS' Democratic Charter be activated.". A sad, hypocritical reality, really...

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254191)

How the fuck did a petro-state manage to rack up 50% GDP debt?

Re: En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254231)

This! When socialism turns to corrupt populism, why in the fuck would someone advocate more socialism?! Engaging in a double-down of more of the same is pure insanity!

Re: En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254483)

This. Because it has been proven that capitalists petro-states like U.S.A. debt is way smaller than 50% from GDP

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1)

reelyanoob (2329548) | about 6 months ago | (#46254791)

How did they rack up 72% GDP debt back in 1994 in the Pre-socialist days? http://www.indexmundi.com/vene... [indexmundi.com] they were 72% GDP in debt in 1994, well before they became socialist. then they got that down to 25% by 2008 (under, you know, socialism), then the GFC hit and oil prices tumbled and they had to borrow money again. But this doesn't change the fact that THEY WERE HIGHER IN DEBT BEFORE SOCIALISM. Before socialism = MORE DEBT. it's something called context.

Re:En Venezuela hay mucho PETROLEO... (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 6 months ago | (#46253971)

It also means US "military aid" will "care" about the "well being" of Venezuelan "citizens"

Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (3, Insightful)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about 6 months ago | (#46253793)

Once the government can start ceasing private assets "for the greater good," they can start taking away a lot more than just physical goods "for the greater good." People in that country are already emigrating en masse, it's only a matter of time until the iron curtain rises.

And by the way, for anybody who still thinks that restricting imports through tariffs and other measures is a good idea for the sake of improving domestic job creation, you'll want to take a good solid look at Venezuela's recent history in the last few months where they've made it extremely difficult to buy foreign goods, and this:

http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/... [guardianlv.com]

When they say imports and domestic production rise and fall with one another, this is what they're talking about.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253893)

Did you mean "seizing"? Your arguments using that word would be much more convincing if you had read about it enough times to know how to spell it.

Re: Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254255)

Correcting someone's spelling and grammar is welcome so long as it's a polite comment. Beating someone over the head with an honest mistake only makes you look like an ass. That, and it does nothing to add constructive value. In short, have some manners!

Re: Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 6 months ago | (#46254433)

Speling gramer pendants got nothing good. So they go with spelling and grammar.

Re: Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

germansausage (682057) | about 6 months ago | (#46254491)

I have a gramer pendant, but I stopped wearing it because the chain kept snagging on my t shirts.

Re: Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 6 months ago | (#46254765)

Cause I actually don't know how to spell spel, grammer or pendant.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253901)

"emigrating en masse"

Not according to the article that you linked; "some are seeking safety through emigration"

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (0)

mcgrew (92797) | about 6 months ago | (#46254075)

Once the government can start ceasing private assets

I weep for today's educational systems.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (0)

Sique (173459) | about 6 months ago | (#46254141)

But private entities should be allowed to seize assets for the greater good ("a free market, that will benefit us all"), right? Pardon, it's not seizing assets, it's called making profits while burdening the costs on the general public.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

Qzukk (229616) | about 6 months ago | (#46254173)

Hey, you've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette and... whats this? A bill for eggs? Holy shit a UFO! runs

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (0)

sycodon (149926) | about 6 months ago | (#46254219)

Just the other day a Chevy dealer showed up with a new Truck. He said, "This is yours now and we will seize $500 per month from your paycheck."

But, he said it's for the greater good so I guess it's OK.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

Sique (173459) | about 6 months ago | (#46254519)

That's what actually happens to me, but it's not socialist, it's purely capitalist: Because I have to drive to customers, the company is paying a car for me, but because I could use it privately, they deduct 250 € monthly from my paycheck.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | about 6 months ago | (#46254847)

In a socialist country (like mine), the state is doing this. If you get a company car, you are taxed for private use of that car (to the tune of 24% of the sticker price added to your income each year, typically in the 42% or 52% tax bracket, and that sticker price already includes close to 50% VAT and special duties on cars). Getting a company car includes paid-for petrol and servicing, but the tax makes it only slightly cheaper than buying your own car.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

sycodon (149926) | about 6 months ago | (#46254991)

The point is that private entities don't seize. You agreed to the arrangement.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

Sique (173459) | about 6 months ago | (#46255021)

Agreed in the sense, that I was choosing the lesser of two evils. I could either drive with a private car and try to get a refund, or take the company car. I calculated that I had to drive more than 15,000 mls per year for the company to just get even. As most of my work is done remotely, I never reach 15,000 mls per year, but I had to buy a second car just for the job.

Freedom of choice doesn't amount to much, if all alternatives are bad.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 6 months ago | (#46254229)

You're a genius having that 20 20 hindsight.
Oh, btw., you completely missed
the operative word vis à vis Venezuela.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

similar_name (1164087) | about 6 months ago | (#46254439)

Once the government can start ceasing[SIC] private assets "for the greater good,"

Apparently in America, football is for the greater good. Good luck keeping your home or business if an NFL franchise decides it's a good place to put a stadium. Oh and you'll get to help pay for the stadium through your local taxes too. You might be compensated but you don't get to set the price. Ask a business owner who's been displaced if he was fairly compensated for the business that's been his family 50 years. Ask the 70 year old couple that lived in the same house their whole lives if there is any compensation worth moving in their twilight years. If you think you truly own anything, you're deluding yourself.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (1)

Patent Lover (779809) | about 6 months ago | (#46254521)

In addition, don't forget that the NFL is officially a nonprofit and pays zero taxes.

Re:Can't say I didn't see this one coming. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254503)

This! In capitalism only private enterprises are entitled to seize your physical goods because you can't pay your debts for the greater good!

backward technique (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253815)

The Western world has long learned that, if you want to dominate people, you don't directly stop them from speaking - instead, you lie to them a lot, you shout louder than them, and you use the excuse of "private property" to excuse the fact that half a dozen firms own several hundred media outlets, including all mainstream media.

If you silence people, it's "totalitarianism" - if you drown people out, it's "the market".

And, as the Arab spring showed, Twitter made people feel good for a while, but the final result was as reactionary as anyone actually paying attention to the political arena expected.

Re:backward technique (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 6 months ago | (#46253825)

It's also important to give them the illusion of power. The easiest way is to give them elections to participate in, but make sure all the candidates with a chance of winning are in agreement on all the really important issues. It also helps to designate a couple of 'agreed disagreements' the candidates can fight over publically without risking actually changing the balance of power. Abortion, gay rights, that sort of thing - regardless of the outcome, it's not going to risk unseating anyone from their position at the top of the wealth pile.

Re:backward technique (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254237)

This is what happens to Slashdot when the West is asleep. Nut jobs from all manner of tin pot, third world shit holes get on and try to defend their dysfunctional, failed Marxist governments.

Arab Spring...what a fucking joke. It's brought less freedom and more death. But, that's the standard Progressive playbook, blow up things that work and replace them with shit that doesn't.

Today's topic (1)

suso (153703) | about 6 months ago | (#46253849)

censXXXXXX

Why call for a coup d'État (2)

xvan (2935999) | about 6 months ago | (#46253855)

Despite a progressive worsening of civil and human rights, governments of the world have shied away from directly labeling Maduro a dictator

Why should they call an elected president, for incompetent he were, a dictator.
In latin america we have had our own share of US sponsored dictators, they were no good but in that time we celebrated them. Now looking back to what happened, we know it can allways get worse.

If you are in a parlamentary system, you disolve the government.
If you are in a presidential system you wait for the next election...

The damages of a destitution aren't worth for the people.

Re:Why call for a coup d'État (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 6 months ago | (#46253897)

Given widespread censorship on TV etc, how fair were the elections, really? How fair will be the next ones?

A country can have elections and still be a dictatorship. Case in point: DPRK. You even get three parties to choose from!

except that Venezuela is 100 times better off unde (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253915)

And democratically elected too. Doesn't suit you if you are from the extreme wealthy who want to turn Venezuela back to your luxury feifdom!

Re:except that Venezuela is 100 times better off u (2)

Ateocinico (32734) | about 6 months ago | (#46253945)

Chavistas made of Venezuela their luxury feifdom. Top chavistas are a new class named "boliburguesia", a variant of kleptocracy. And elections per se mean nothing. You hold your legitimacy with your deeds and words.

Re: except that Venezuela is 100 times better off (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 6 months ago | (#46254285)

That's the problem with parasites; eventually they kill themselves after they kill off their host.

Re:Why call for a coup d'État (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253917)

On the other hand, freedom of the press belongs to the owners of the presses.

Still, this recently passed UK Parliament bill [theguardian.com] puts such heavy restrictions on anything seen remotely as political campaigning that, as far as I'm concerned, we might as well now be living under a dictatorship as far as freedom of political speech. (And I say that as someone whose family was brought up under a dictatorship, where at least there was no illusion of choice to waste time celebrating.)

Re:Why call for a coup d'État (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254079)

The elections in Venezuela are the most scrutinized in the world. US delegations, European Union and United Nation delegations report they've been given nothing but complete access. None of these international observers have reported abuses. The USA on the other hand, does not allow foreign observers.

Re:Why call for a coup d'État (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254113)

Forbes.com, hardly a communist front writes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2013/05/14/venezuelas-election-system-holds-up-as-a-model-for-the-world/
Headline: "Venezuela's Election System Holds Up As A Model For The World"

Now, if you research the voting system in Venezuela, they have voting machines which are running open-source code, so the code they are meant to be running is public knowledge. USA voting machines are manufacturer's secret and the companies are mostly own by Republicans.

All Venezuelan voting machines internal storage is encrypted using encrypted keys, where each major political party and the Electoral commission only have part of the key per machine. That means nobody can tamper with the machines during the election cycle, and all hard-drives can be cloned and save for analysis later. Each machine not only stores a tally of all votes, but it spits out a paper ballot which the voter can check that it matches his vote. Each machine has a box for the paper ballots, so these are also hand-counted to ensure that each machine's electronic storage also matches the paper ballots cast. So, to be valid, the decrypted voting machine's hard-drives MUST match the paper ballots, after each party delegation reveals their keys for each machine. This ensures that simple "ballot box stuffing" can't trick the system, nor can simple hacking of the machines.

They also allow all local parties and foreign governments to present observers at each of the voting stations. These local party observers are involved in every step of the counting and validation process.

Re:Why call for a coup d'État (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254215)

USA voting machines are manufacturer's secret and the companies are mostly own by Republicans.

And yet those machines, they keep electing Democrats! And the republicans are now in a struggle in many formerly automatic red states, whereas the Democrats have easy victories in dozens of states.

Re:Why call for a coup d'État (1)

Teun (17872) | about 6 months ago | (#46254477)

Democracy is more than 'just' free elections, you also need an independent judiciary and that's one of the elements missing in countries like Venezuela or Egypt.

I would even hazard to postulate a one-party government is lacking in democratic principles...

Re:Why call for a coup d'État (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254583)

It's actually a difficult issue, since pre-Chavez-era Venezuela was noted for having one of the most corrupt judiciary systems in Latin America. Chavez was elected with a promise to do something about that.

You can't clean up corruption without getting rid of the corrupt people, but the media treats any member of the Venezuelan judiciary actually charged with corruption since Chavez as blatantly political. How do you fight endemic corruption without actually removing anyone who is corrupt?

Re:Why call for a coup d'État (1)

fche (36607) | about 6 months ago | (#46253929)

"Why should they call an elected president, for incompetent he were, a dictator."

Because he sought and accepted an "Enabling Act", letting him rule by edict. Just like his predecessor Chavez. And Hitler.

propaganda? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253869)

This story seems to be heavily politically skewed. I notice on Telesur that Chavez'es party claims that their Twitter account has been hacked and the opposition Twitter accounts are all running.

When did Slashdot get in the "regime change by spreading false news" business?

Re:propaganda? (1)

johanneswilm (549816) | about 6 months ago | (#46253899)

Venezuelan government's response: The telephone company is to blame. This happened in several Latin american countries. http://www.telesurtv.net/artic... [telesurtv.net] Makes sense if you think about it: Why would one want to only censor Twitter images? Will Slashdot come out openly in favor of a coup d'etat in a European country if they have temporarily internet connection problems?

Re:propaganda? (1)

Ateocinico (32734) | about 6 months ago | (#46253961)

Yea, we are going to believe you because here in /. nobody has a clue of how the internet works...

Re:propaganda? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254543)

Will Slashdot come out openly in favor of a coup d'etat in a European country if they have temporarily internet connection problems?

I will join the coup if my internet connection start to have problems. We need a strong leader who keeps internet free. HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!!!!!

Re:propaganda? (2)

Ateocinico (32734) | about 6 months ago | (#46253957)

Nothing is more politically skewed than Telesur. Telesur is essentially a Venezuelan government propaganda agency for the outside world.

Usual anti-venezeuan bullshit from the extreme rig (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253911)

Funniest was when Fox news reported about a decade ago that Hugo Chavez, then president of Venezuela was corruptly redirecting the countries oil royalties to feed and educate the poor in the rural regions. So corrupt!! at least to crazy right wing lunatics of course.

Re:Usual anti-venezeuan bullshit from the extreme (2)

Ateocinico (32734) | about 6 months ago | (#46253967)

The sad part is that it was not true. Instead the money was wasted in bribes and corruption.

Re:Usual anti-venezeuan bullshit from the extreme (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254165)

Factually false, if you look at actual economic data. e.g.:

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/the-chavez-administration-at-10-years-the-economy-and-social-indicators/

"The Chávez Administration at 10 Years: The Economy and Social Indicators."

Among the highlights:

        The current economic expansion began when the government got control over the national oil company in the first quarter of 2003. Since then, real (inflation-adjusted) GDP has nearly doubled, growing by 94.7 percent in 5.25 years, or 13.5 percent annually.

        Most of this growth has been in the non-oil sector of the economy, and the private sector has grown faster than the public sector.

        During the current economic expansion, the poverty rate has been cut by more than half, from 54 percent of households in the first half of 2003 to 26 percent at the end of 2008. Extreme poverty has fallen even more, by 72 percent. These poverty rates measure only cash income, and do not take into account increased access to health care or education.

        Over the entire decade, the percentage of households in poverty has been reduced by 39 percent, and extreme poverty by more than half.

        There have been substantial gains in education, especially higher education, where gross enrollment rates more than doubled from 1999-2000 to 2007-2008.

        Over the past decade, the number of social security beneficiaries has more than doubled.

        Real (inflation-adjusted) social spending per person more than tripled from 1998-2006.

Re:Usual anti-venezeuan bullshit from the extreme (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254233)

Yeah lots of people flee the country and riot in the streets when their benefits triple and GDP is booming.

Re:Usual anti-venezeuan bullshit from the extreme (1)

Clsid (564627) | about 6 months ago | (#46254861)

With chavez we were doing pretty good, but after he died things took a U-turn in a matter of months. To make a long story short, the incompetent bureacracy that Chavez helped grow but ruled with an iron fist was free of the leash, so the economy in particular became the part most affected by inexperienced politicians.

Re:Usual anti-venezeuan bullshit from the extreme (2)

fche (36607) | about 6 months ago | (#46254269)

Some of the money may have gone to a good cause. Lots went to bad causes, earning the "corruption" label. (The mob does a good deed once in a while too.)

And of course, nationalizing the industry killed the goose that laid the golden egg, so in the long term, even the "good cause" was unsustainable. And in the socialist paradise, that "long term" took all of five or six years to turn to crap.

U.S.A Regime puts people in Guantanamo (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253963)

or landfill, So what's worse?

VoTE FoR PEDRO! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46253975)

vote for Pedro

So much disinformation... (4, Insightful)

Kilobug (213978) | about 6 months ago | (#46253993)

First, it is not "massive protests", it's the typical (for Venezuela since 1999) protest of the wealthy minority opposing the Bolivarian Revolution, despite dozens of electoral victories of PSUV and allies (ratified by various international observers). And it is violent protests, like when Capriles contested the elections of Maduro, in both cases there has been PSUV supporters _killed_ by the opposition. The opposition also assaulted public building, like Chacao municipality or Caracas metro system (this time), or schools and hospitals (when Maduro was elected).

On the broader picture, the opposition isn't at its first violent attempt to oppose the democratically elected government. For those who don't remember it, in 2002, the same opposition did a military coup attempt, in which Pedro Carmona (the leader of business federation) briefly took power, suspended the Constitution and constitutional guarantees, dissolved the Parliament and the Supreme Court, imposed martial law, closed the public TV station and many independent local TV channels (like Catia TV). Capriles, the current leader of the opposition in Venezuela, was personally involved in supporting the coup, including in a violent assault against the Cuban embassy in Caracas.

Those protests aren't done by "students", they are done by a rich elite refusing to lose their privilege, and not stopping at any means (including violence, murder, and military coups) to undermine a legitmately elected and always re-elected government. They are fascists, as shown by how they behaved (suspending all constitutional guarantees and dissolving all democratic institutions) when they briefly took power in 2002.

As for the media, before listening to all the lies about "censorship", you should remember that the media in 2002 actively participated in the coup attempt, manipulating footage to pretend that Chávez supporters opened fire on the opposition, while in reality it was sharpshooters from the opposition killing Chávez supporters from the roof of on hotel. There is a very good documentary on that topic, "The Revolution will not be televised", that was made by Irish filmmakers who happened to be in Caracas during the events. I advise strongly everyone to watch this documentary before supporting the "opposition" in Venezuela and criticizing the attitude of the Venezuelan government towards the media. In most countries of the world, including Europe or USA, if media did half of what they did in Venezuela, there would have been prison sentences.

Finally, for the Twitter "censorship", the PSUV Twitter account was hacked recently, and Twitter is not cooperating the Venezuelan government to help them track the authors of that infraction. While no one knows (yet) all the details of what is going on between the Venezuelan government and Twitter, it's way too early to call about "censorship" in that context, it may very well be just a way for the Venezuelan government to pressure Twitter to cooperate in tracking the authors of a penal infraction.

Re:So much disinformation... (5, Informative)

Ateocinico (32734) | about 6 months ago | (#46254115)

We are in year 2014, not in 2002. Those who protest now were children then. The Venezuelan government through it's agency CONATEL, has eliminated any form of criticism and criminalized reporting about murder, scarcity and economic trouble in TV either cable or broadcast. They forced cable operators to eliminate a Colombian cable channel (NTN24) because they were reporting what was happening in Venezuela. You know that the Venezuelan government is strangling free press by refusing dollars for paper purchase. And remember, legitimacy in origin is not a blank check for violating human rights consecrated in the Venezuela constitution like: right to live, free speech, right to protest and habeas corpus, among many other.

Re:So much disinformation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254809)

And remember, legitimacy in origin is not a blank check for violating human rights consecrated in the Venezuela constitution like: right to live, free speech, right to protest and habeas corpus, among many other.

Can you please tell that to the US government?

Re:So much disinformation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254925)

Can you please tell that to the US Regime?

There fixed that for you.

Re:So much disinformation... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254139)

Those protests aren't done by "students", they are done by a rich elite refusing to lose their privilege, and not stopping at any means (including violence, murder, and military coups) to undermine a legitmately elected and always re-elected government. They are fascists, as shown by how they behaved (suspending all constitutional guarantees and dissolving all democratic institutions) when they briefly took power in 2002.

Ah, so everyone who opposes Maduro is a violent fascist, just like everyone who opposes the rule of Kagame in Rwanda is a genocidaire and everyone who opposes Putin turns out to secretly be an agent of anti-Russian overseas powers. Interesting that 'the Bolivarian Revolution' is taking so long, isn't it? It's almost like the concept of revolution is being used to excuse failures and justify oppressive behaviour on a supposedly 'temporary' but actually permanent basis.

The legitimacy of a democratic state doesn't just rest on whether elections are held. It also depends on whether there is a genuine space for political debate and opposition. Ruling by edict and refusing to accept that anyone could legitimately oppose 'the Bolivarian Revolution' without being a facist makes any democracy a sham.

Re:So much disinformation... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254211)

You are uninformed. There are plenty of US-sponsored fascist groups in Venezuela. Also, the "Bolivarian revolution" transformed latin america, it took the time it needed and it's succeeding. Your opinion lacks of transparency and facts, probably because you don't live there?

Re:So much disinformation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254259)

please name one of these organizations.

Re:So much disinformation... (0)

newsnews (1951656) | about 6 months ago | (#46254415)

Ah, so everyone who opposes Maduro is a violent fascist, just like everyone who opposes the rule of Kagame in Rwanda is a genocidaire and everyone who opposes Putin turns out to secretly be an agent of anti-Russian overseas powers.

Your "everyone" argument is a strawman as no one suggests that all protests are fascist.

Interesting that 'the Bolivarian Revolution' is taking so long, isn't it? It's almost like the concept of revolution is being used to excuse failures and justify oppressive behaviour on a supposedly 'temporary' but actually permanent basis.

Is it taking long? Poverty has fallen by more than half and extreme poverty by more than two-thirds.
http://venezuelanalysis.com/indicators/2009 [venezuelanalysis.com]

Venezuela is also one of 18 countries recognized by the UN for meeting their most stringent anti-hunger targets:
http://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/177728/icode/ [fao.org]

And for the first time in half a centuary, there is a counter balance to United States hegemony in Latin America. The leaders of Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, and Boliva have all given credit to Chavez and Venezuela for making that possible. In Boliva by the way, there was a US-backed plan to privatize water. To say a counter balance was needed is an understatement.

The legitimacy of a democratic state doesn't just rest on whether elections are held. It also depends on whether there is a genuine space for political debate and opposition. Ruling by edict and refusing to accept that anyone could legitimately oppose 'the Bolivarian Revolution' without being a facist makes any democracy a sham.

Don't kid yourself, the right wing media in Latin America is ruthless and there are media criticisms everyday of the government in Venezuela. And since you think Venezuela is a "sham" democracy, I wonder what you think of the United States? Of course, in the US no one is arrested for protesting and alternatives to the two Wall Street owned politcal parties are given plenty of media coverage.

Re:So much disinformation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254537)

From what I've heard (anectdotes) and as an extension of what I lived around 8 years ago, things like flour, toilet paper and coffee are things that have been lacking recently. So, forgive me if I don't trust that paper saying that hunger has been reduced (it may have been, but I'm not entirely sure that it was a net increase in food availability and instead just a relocation of existing or shrinking resources). The biggest problem for venezuela, imo, is that nobody wants bolivares. Nobody wants to invest in it. I may read the paper you linked about there being less poverty, but I will take it with a grain of salt: you may have more money, but if you can't buy, it's useless. It's also useless if you are using what the government thinks the bolivar is worth vs the dollar.

I, however, admit that I do not follow venezuela. There is a reason I'm not there anymore and I honestly don't understand why people are unable to decide to just go away. They are unwanted there, and their situation would seriously improve if they just emigrated.

Captcha: Boycott

Re:So much disinformation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254143)

Inflation in the Chavez years (1999-2012) was the lowest since 1989. Pre-Chavez and post-Chavez were both higher. Makes you wonder what Maduro is doing exactly, but he's clearly not doing it as well as Chavez did.

Re:So much disinformation... (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 6 months ago | (#46254863)

Maintaining an official exchange rate with threats of violence? Yes Chavez did that better, or perhaps just was a little earlier in the process.

Re:So much disinformation... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254149)

From wikipedia: Much of the criticism is centered on the filmmakers' "use of stock [documentary] devices", such as compositing clips from several events to present them as one incident.[72] Parallel editing also depicts sequences as if they occurred at the same time, when some of the footage was captured on different days. Bartley and Ó Briain justify these methods as standard practice in the construction of documentary realist films.[72] Caracas-based journalist Phil Gunson, writing in Columbia Journalism Review, says that most of the film critics who embraced the film ignored "the complex, messy reality" of the situation.[7] He charges that the filmmakers "omit key facts, invent others, twist the sequence of events to support their case, and replace inconvenient images with others dredged from archives".[7] Bartley and Ó Briain argue that Gunson's points are "issues of dispute" that "continue to divide opinion" in Venezuela.[73] Author Brian A. Nelson says that Bartley and Ó Briain—in their initial meeting with Chávez—did more than merely invoke Daniel O'Leary to gain the president's support for filming; Nelson alleges that they offered to portray the president positively in return for open access, with a "you scratch my back if I scratch yours" understanding that he says was ultimately reflected in the film's "unabashed pro-Chavismo."[74]

So really, it was just more propaganda from a group of which you would expect exactly that.

Re:So much disinformation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254167)

One of the film's key contentions is that the private media aired footage selectively to make it look like the violence of 11 April was caused by Chávez's supporters, portraying them as an "irrational and uncivilized mob".[59] Private television repeatedly showed Chávez's supporters on Puente Llaguno bridge as they shot at Baralt Avenue below, an area purportedly full of opposition marchers.[7] The film says this footage was edited to show the gunmen but not the people near them who were ducking to avoid being shot. It follows with images taken from above the bridge showing an empty Baralt Avenue, claiming that "the opposition march had never taken that route" and that Chávez's supporters were only returning fire.[13] Gunson charges that this edit is itself a misrepresentation, stating that the film does not mention that both sets of marchers were fired upon, and taking issue with the implication that "coup plotters" were the shooters.[7] In response, the filmmakers say, "Nowhere in the film did we say that only [Chávez's supporters] were shot ... Nobody can say with certainty who orchestrated the shootings."[73

Re:So much disinformation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254619)

SBS television australia reports that the coup-leading generals recorded a protest about the shootings against their own followers. several hours before they occured, including the location and type of attack. It's quite clear the Venezuelan right wing fired on their own supporters to justify the coup.

Watch 5:00+ in this video, from SBS News australia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2Uqx_mkhPs

Re:So much disinformation... (1)

ph1ll (587130) | about 6 months ago | (#46254445)

Mod parent up.

I'm getting bored of articles about Venezuela's so-called dictatorship. Ask yourself:

  1. Why is Venezuela's democracy questioned when former US President, Jimmy Carter, whose foundation monitors these things, says [theguardian.com] "of the 92 elections that we've monitored, I would say that the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world"?
  2. Why does the media spend so much time vilifying Venezuela's democracy when our friends in Saudi Arabia chop off the head of a princess in a car park [wikipedia.org] , ban women from driving [bbc.co.uk] and do not have elections but have a rather nasty dictator [cbsnews.com] ? "Ignore that man behind the curtain" - apparently it's hateful little Venezuela with their elections that keep voting in socialists that are the real problem not the Islamic dictatorships of the Middle East with whom we can more easily negotiate oil supplies.
  3. Does it have anything to do with Venezuela having the world's largest proven reserves of oil? [wikipedia.org] And that despite all the animosity between Venezuela and the United States, it still is the fourth largest exporter of oil to the US? [bloomberg.com] Or could it be that it used to have a habit of threatening to stop selling oil to the United States [ft.com] ? A self-destructive move but one which it had every right to do.

Venezuela is undeniably badly run. But in a democracy, a country has the right (within reason) to run their affairs as they see fit.

Re:So much disinformation... (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 6 months ago | (#46254801)

But in a democracy, a country has the right (within reason) to run their affairs as they see fit.

I hope you remember that when an American court gives the Venezuelan owned refinery to an American oil company to partially compensate them for what Venezuela stole from them in Venezuela.

Re:So much disinformation... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46255335)

Excuse me but you're mostly spouting government propaganda. I'm here in Caracas watching all this an I can tell you the following:

- Carmona "took power" one day, placed there by the same military leaders who later backed off and placed Chavez back in power. Your "dissolving" and "martial law" were just pronouncements of his intentions while things calmed down, at which point everyone backed off. The guy wasn't even a dictator for a day, not even a president.
- Capriles "was involved" in that coup much less than Chavez was involved in his coup attempt years before taking the presidency. People always gloss over Chavez being a leader of a coup aginst a president who had "lost touch", "screwed up the economy", "threatened stablished interests" and ended up with scarcity even in the most basic products. Just like the current government.
- All oposition leaders always stress being non-violent, just like all student leaders and all protesters. Protests are always non violent, there are no coup attempts.
- This week there were three dead in a protest. Funny thing, it happened after all the leaders had left. You might not believe an AC, but I was in a laundry shop at around 4:00 when next to me a girl got a call from her sister who worked with the government. They were going to send people to start shit up and she wanted to know if here sister had gotten out of there. Now as I said you might not believe me but most people in Venezuela see this shit as the governemtn taking the oportunity to crack down on the oposition. When people outside the protests die, Maduro goes on TV saying that he will track down those responsible. When students are killed or abused by the police, nobody cares.
- The government is great at manipulating media and censoring without outright saying setting any clear laws. After that coup (12 years ago) they had their own Tv channels putting up the oposite viewpoint so international channels had to be impartial and show "both views" one of which was fabricated. It's easy to bring in supporters form abroad to make one film and suddently everyone against the government "deserves prison sentences". That TV channel got closed when their license got non renewed. The other oposition TV channel got bought out by goverment supproters and now shy away from covering anything real. Now nobody reports on the protests for fear they're going to get fired.
- There were never attacks on schools and hospitals. There's no point attacking a metro system, unless you're talking about the usual people robbing in there. The Chacao municipality has an opposition mayor, so it's not the opposition attacking it.

Now these protests are done by students. Yes, they have backing from the oposition, but they are done by students. Maybe not "all students" only like 60 or 70% (Most elections are around 51% and yes, some people doubt the results, but younger people have different demographics). But as I said the government is great at media manipulation. They grab 10 students on their side and have them make a statement on TV saying that the protesters are a minority and suddenly that's the truth.

Now you have a situation where when Maduro or his government want to say something, all the TV and radio staions are forced by law to carry it live. He can claim whatever he wants and nobody will say the opposite and even if he's lying, nobody is left to prosecute him or even fine him. You go to a protest and you see a lot of people and see the leaders asking for democratic non violent solutions. You check on TV and it says they are small (but avoid showing much) and Maduro stating outright that these leaders are promoting violence.

Who you going to believe.

PS: Caracol and other foreing news channel do carry information, but a lot of Venezuelans don't get those channels. If you want info on this don't watch Venezuelan channels, watch real news or go on Facebook/twitter for info.

dude looks like a lady (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254019)

0000000000000
0 SHE IS GAY 0
0000000000000
                      00
                        0 - oh, no!

Ah, socialism ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254023)

Socialism should have been left on the ash heap of history. I really don't know why people keep thinking it can work or how these so-called 'charismatic' leaders are able to convince so many that water isn't wet in the process.

This article is missinformed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254223)

This is not what's happening.

The so-called "protests" are ultra-right neo-nazi groups being helped by Colombian paramilitaries in order to manipulate the public opinion. It is exactly the same shit that's happening in Ukraine right now.

1. There has been no violence from the state
2. There has been no censoring, no repression and no dictatorship as western world likes to believe
3. Ultra right groups (a Golden Dawn clone from Greece) are causing mass riots in the states that are governed by right wing parties
4. The leader of the protests is fascist student with high ties to Colombian neo-nazi groups

Some links (spanish):

1. http://radiomacondo.fm/2014/02/15/pueblo-venezolano-se-congregara-en-la-capital-en-contra-del-fascismo/
2. http://radiomacondo.fm/2014/02/14/mas-de-60-portales-web-del-gobierno-venezolano-afectadas-por-ataques-ciberneticos/
3. http://laradiodelsur.com/?p=246048
4. http://laradiodelsur.com/?p=245897
5. http://laradiodelsur.com/?p=245911
6. http://laradiodelsur.com/?p=245961
7. http://laradiodelsur.com/?p=245929
8. http://www.telesurtv.net/articulos/2014/02/15/pueblo-venezolano-se-congregara-en-la-capital-en-contra-del-fascismo-6039.html
9. http://www.telesurtv.net/articulos/2014/02/14/gobierno-venezolano-descarta-censura-a-medios-internacionales-4038.html
10. http://www.telesurtv.net/articulos/2014/02/14/colombia-lamenta-hechos-violentos-en-venezuela-1162.html
11. http://www.telesurtv.net/articulos/2014/02/14/gobernador-del-tachira-asegura-que-paramilitares-colombianos-se-han-sumado-a-las-protestas-estundiantiles-en-la-region-4671.html
12. http://www.telesurtv.net/articulos/2014/02/14/manipulacion-de-imagenes-y-guerra-psicologica-en-venezuela-y-las-redes-776.html

Re:This article is missinformed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254507)

DISCLAIMER: OP is a Cuban or Venezuelan intelligence agent. His "sources" are all left-leaning "news" sites.

1. You can see the videos of GNB "dispersing" the crowds.
2. NTN24 has been put off-air
3. LOL
4. LOL

Obvious shill (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46255013)

In case the use of scandalous language like "ultra-right" (is that even a common English expression?), "neo-nazi" and "Colombian paramilitaries" hasn't tipped you off, check the "sources" this AC provides:

* Radio Macondo: praising FARC, Ché Guevara, marxism. Mocking Obama, the Colombian gov't, etc.
* Telesur: propaganda agency founded and led by Venezuela's former minister of Communications and Information Andrés Izarra, funded by the Venezuelan gov't.
* La Radio del Sur: part of the "Sistema Bolivariano de Comunicación e Información"; Chávez on the marquee and in half of all headlines.

And of course, and uncompromising stance: no censorship, no repression, gov't is giving out puppies; demonstrators are all fascist meanies.

So, paid shiil or just fanatical?

Regime? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254235)

Meanwhile the US Regime continues murdering people throughout the world with impunity.

"Regime"? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254249)

Isn't that term usually reserved for dictatorships 'we' don't like, e.g. Syria? The Venezuelan government was democratically elected.

Slashdot Censors Also... This site is dead. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254747)

So tired of people with agendas fucking up a good thing.

Anyone have a link to a site we can move to that's halfway decent?

Twister (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254749)

It's time to use twister ! decentrlized twitter : http://twister.net.co/ !

Obama regime killing kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46254777)

Please just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a dictatorship. That's soooo freaking CNN shit

No evidence for censorship (1)

reelyanoob (2329548) | about 6 months ago | (#46254915)

OpenNet tested a large number of country's internet set-ups back in 2006 and couldn't find any filtered IPs in venezuela at all: "The OpenNet Initiative conducted tests of Internet censorship in late 2006 on the two major ISPs in Venezuela. The testing covered a wide range of potentially sensitive content, including sites dedicated to political opposition, freedom of expression, and general anti-Chávez media, as well as sites centered on controversial social issues such as minority religions, indigenous peoples, gambling, and pornography. This assessment turned up no evidence of filtering." This was back when claims were rife that Venezuela was censored to hell and back. Then, and now, there is no evidence. Or you would hear more than a temporary glitch in Twitter as hard evidence. What sort of censorship stops only twitter images loading on some machines and completely locks other users out of the page? In more recent reports, this has already been fixed apparently just a few hours after it started and was reported as a technical problem. I see no reason to assume such a random set of technical symptoms is due to some as yet unknown censorship system.

Re:No evidence for censorship (1)

arielCo (995647) | about 6 months ago | (#46255137)

Here's a test from the state-owned ISP (CANTV) mentioned in TFA:

$ for host in lapatilla.com pastebin.com anonymouse.org; do ping -w 3 -c 4 $host; done
PING lapatilla.com (141.101.113.240) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 141.101.113.240: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=133 ms

--- lapatilla.com ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 133.576/133.576/133.576/0.000 ms
PING pastebin.com (190.93.241.15) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- pastebin.com ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 2014ms

PING anonymouse.org (193.200.150.137) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- anonymouse.org ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 2016ms

La Patilla is a popular opposition news site (slow but not actually blocked). Pastebin was used to distribute the links to some leaked emails last year. Anonymouse is quite popular with opposition Venezuelans trying to circumvent actual or perceived blockings.

It's ok when someone you like does it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46255363)

Don't worry. Censorship is only bad if it can be blamed on the evil conservatives. As long as the beloved socialist communist high godkingforlife of Venezuela does it, it's "for their own good," so it's ok. This is all normal. Censorship, robbery, oppression, and monarchy are just fine as long as it's done by someone you like. So ok, I get that you're just fine with a dictator with absolute power as long as he's someone you're fond of. Now what happens when the dictator dies and the torch gets passed to someone you don't? Oh wait, that's in a far away country, so it's not your problem. Just an odd curiosity for you to read about on the internet. Sure sucks to be them huh?

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>