EU Targets Facebook's Ad System 170
redletterdave writes "The European Commission plans to put a stop to the way Facebook gathers information about its users, including their political opinions, religious beliefs, whereabouts and sexual preferences, and how the social network sells that information for commercial purposes. A new EC Directive aims to ban targeted advertising unless users specifically allow it, and to amend the current European data protection laws to ensure consistency in how offending sites are dealt with across the EU. If the European Commission has its way, Facebook would suffer big losses in advertising dollars that fund its site, which would further damage the company's plans to go public next year. Facebook has defended itself, claiming its advertisers target wide demographics like age and location, rather than specific individuals. The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company denies outright that it misuses or mishandles user information."
those europeans... (Score:5, Funny)
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That's ok as long as American companies don't understand that those Europeans can have all the laws they want.
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Those Europeans doesn't understand
" Is our children learning? [spike.com]"
— prof. George W. Bush
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So soon the Americans will invade Europia and bomb them back to freedom.
You can opt out (Score:5, Funny)
Is that hard?
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Re:You can opt out (Score:5, Informative)
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NoScript to the rescue again, I guess.
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Re:You can opt out (Score:4, Informative)
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Adblock will help you - block the loading of any resource from facebook.com or fbcdn.com except when directly visiting fb.
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Re:You can opt out (Score:5, Informative)
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Don't forget to block Facebook on your computer.
Or block all of Facebook's IP ranges on your router (if it has that ability). I added their known IPv4 ranges to the facebook page on Wikipedia on 3 September 2011, but that information was removed by "Gary King" on 8 October. For educational purposes, the IPv4 ranges were (as of 3 September 2011):
65.201.208.24 - 65.201.208.31
65.203.134.64 - 65.203.134.79
65.204.104.128 - 65.204.104.143
66.92.180.48 - 66.92.180.63
66.93.78.176 - 66.93.78.183
66.220.144.0 - 66.220.159.255
67.200.105.48 - 67.200.105.51
69.6
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Your friends who are too lazy to call your phone won't invite you to their NYE party. But then, if they are that lazy, they will probably forget to buy eggnog too.
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will probably forget to buy eggnog too.
... and nothing of value was lost?
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But you have to opt-out for each ad as it appears on your page. That's the problem!
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The Internet should not be regulated (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not just Facebook, many other companies like Google do this. But although this regulation has good intentions, like all attempts at regulating the Internet it will be counterproductive and unenforceable. The Internet is based on anarchy, that's what made it big and drives it today. Securing their data is the duty of the users.
Re:The Internet should not be regulated (Score:4, Insightful)
This is not regulation of the Internet. This is regulation of advertising.
Re:The Internet should not be regulated (Score:4, Insightful)
specifically the fact that it has become common practice for sites to treat opt-out as informed consent, when its well known that if opt-in was in place extremely low numbers would opt-in.
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So Amazon should shut down, as no one can be expected to keep their credit card details secure on the net. Of course there should be regulation to protect people. Large websites, such as Amazon, Google, Facebook, et al. all can easily be assessed for compliance, and once compliant, a large part of the internet has been made compliant. How a user is supposed to actually *use* the internet without providing any data to it is going to severely limit the uses of the internet. We'll end up with LOLcats all over the place, and nothing of any actual use.
I don't think that the EU will forbid you to give your private data out voluntarily and for your own purposes. I believe the issue revolves around companies distributing your private data for their benefit and without your express permission.
Express permission means "opt in" not "opt out". Opt out is often difficult if not impossible, especially in the case of facebook. Also it is not something that many, if not most, users know that they can do.
You should add keeping IP addresses secret in your over
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Which would mean users have to enter their details every time they buy something; whereas what a lot of people like is the fact that they can do it once and not have to do it again until they change. The fact that I can just go to Amazon, hit 1-Click on the item I want, and it then turns up tomorrow is why I tend to buy stuff from Amazon if I can.
Re:The Internet should not be regulated (Score:5, Interesting)
What about Facebook's constantly morphing privacy and security policies? How can the user protect their data from that?
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Don't use Facebook.
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But that's like saying, "Don't use the web".
No, I'm not arguing that Facebook == the internet. However, if you're going to use the internet for anything other than getting docs, if you're going to use it for personal communication, then there has to be an element of trust with the entity that carries and stores your data.
Would you say, "don't use email" if a bunch of providers out there started making the contents of your email public? Or how about if your bank started to publish your account balance - wo
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It's not necessarily about not using the Internet, but rather not using unreliable services, and letting the free market sort out the trash. But yeah, there are many examples for why it is stupid to trust your email service or online bank with sensitive data.
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Would you say, "don't use email" if a bunch of providers out there started making the contents of your email public? Or how about if your bank started to publish your account balance - would it be your fault for having used on-line banking?
I would say "don't use email provider ", or "don't use bank ".
There are other social networking sites other than Facebook (dozens still current, hundreds been and gone). If people ditched companies that treated them badly, some of their competitors would eventually get big enough to topple them. Hell, Facebook did that to the likes of MySpace, and Twitter is arguably doing the same thing to Facebook now.
Re:The Internet should not be regulated (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:The Internet should not be regulated (Score:5, Insightful)
Securing their data is the duty of the users.
I don't think you understand the power of data mining. Humans are very, very bad at performing inference on many variables. Computers are very, very good at it. It's true that people have a responsibility to safeguard their own privacy, but that's no reason we should have artificial intelligence programs scanning people's every online move to infer as much as possible about them. That's fucking scary, and it's scary that you don't think it's scary.
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I didn't say it's not scary, I said that legal solutions to technical problems rarely work. If you are afraid of being tracked, there are many technical solutions to avoid it.
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Just because a technical solution (may) exist doesn't mean we should solve a problem that way. Instead of laws against homicide, we could all just never leave our homes, or wear armor when we do. While this might seem empowering, it would make life suck.
It's ironic that in "socialist" Europe... (Score:5, Insightful)
... steps are taken to ensure that Big Brother doesn't get too big.
While here in the US, those who most love to cite Orwell also tend to want there to be no limits to what corporations can do, even when it's the corporations (far more so than the government) that are filling the power niches.
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What's more ironic is that Orwell was a socialist himself. Interpreting 1984 as an attack on socialism is a gross misunderstanding - one that's taught by many teachers in the U.S. It's an attack on totalitarianism. Fascism, for example, is a free-market totalitarian system. Oceania was socialist because it represented Soviet Communism, the good intentions of Lenin warped into the totalitarianism of Stalin. It's important to note that Emmanuel Goldstein represented Trotsky, an opponent of Stalin's totalitari
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Just as socialism can lead to totalitarianism, so can capitalism.
Totalitarianism is the result of the concentration of power. If this is at the hands of a socialist government, you get the USSR. If at the hands of a corporate state, you get Germany in 1938.
It's about balance. And those who oppose all government in the US (sometimes for good reasons) never seem to have another counterbalance to growing corporate power. Remember, the second part of the famous quote about "life, liberty and the pursuit of
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WTF, do you not get the context? That was a section of a children's book that Winston was copying into his diary. The whole point is that the government were a bunch of fucking liars, starting with lying to children.
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No, you can't. Try to buy food without giving money to Nestlé or Monsanto for instance!
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It's pretty hard. You don't even know which brands belong to Nestlé, and how many strains of seed and how many herbicides from Monsanto were used.
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Problem is, the end result of an unregulated free market is a monopoly, and without the counterbalance of government, corporations fill the role of government, and acquire the powers accorded to governments by the people. However, with this end result, there is no voting them out of office, and no one left to make laws to reign them in.
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Without government, there can be no corporations, since the corporation is a creation of the government (granted such fun things as limited liability by government fiat)....
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I can choose to not do business with any given corporation.
So, you're stuck with Apple then, since everybody else's computers have Windows preinstalled. And where are you getting your natural gas and electricity from? If you eat, you're doing business with Monsanto and ADM, even if you grow your own food. Cable TV? Well, your choices are Comcast, Dish, or an antenna.
What are you going to do when there are only three huge players in an industry you can't live without and they all behave in exactly the same
I have an easier idea... (Score:2)
Don't post stuff to facebook that you wouldn't want public.
I'm kidding, that's insane - who could possibly follow such a lunatic policy?
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Personal rule of thumb: Don't share anything on FB you wouldn't willingly share to a person you got stuck in a broken elevator with.
Well, my conversation with other people in a broken elevator would concern the topic "how do we get out of here?"
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Personal rule of thumb: Don't share anything on FB you wouldn't willingly share to a person you got stuck in a broken elevator with.
Well, my conversation with other people in a broken elevator would concern the topic "how do we get out of here?"
Elevators have notoriously poor internet connectivity. So it's unlikely that you would be able to Google how to get out of the elevator even if the information was available on FaceBook.
Sorry state of affairs that.
People don't understand facebook (Score:5, Interesting)
To understand facebook it might help to use google as an analogy.
Google is an advertising company that happens to provide services that inspire people to see the ads that they sell.
Facebook is a data mining company that happens to provide services that inspire people to provide the data that they sell.
They both offer advertisements, the both do data mining. In many ways the companies are very very similar. The biggest difference is the interface that is presented to the public. They both offer most of their services in exchange for what they need to sell to make a living.
If you don't want to pay the price than don't take the service they offer. Or, just click the buttons to avoid telling the world about the things you'd rather the whole world not know.
/not a facebook fan and thinks people waste way too much time on it
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the problem is, I can't fully opt-out of google!
I build electronic things and I tend to frequent places like mouser and digikey to order my parts. how shocked I was to see googleapis listed in in the bottom tray of firefox as something was loaded from google. I have ZERO desire for my stuff to touch google. I'm trying to build a project. its none of their fucking business. but what requests are going to google? and WHY?
more and more, I see google*this and google*that on varoius domains that my browser
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do no evil? bullshit.
The motto wasn't "do no evil", it was "don't be evil."
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Just because people are free to take their business elsewhere doesn't mean businesses should be free to do whatever they like.
Easy solution for facebook (Score:2, Interesting)
Only allow people to use their accounts if they agree to allow target advertisement... That would almost guarantee the majority will keep targeted advertisement over losing their accounts.
Anybody honestly believe such a law will have much effect on a site like facebook? This law would be more effective against sites where there isn't an incentive to keep an account. Of course, they could have a clause in the law that forbids such requiring permission to have an account but kinda doubt they thought of that.
Easy opt-out (Score:4, Informative)
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If people had to opt in for advertisements, advertising companies wouldn't make any money. In what world do you see that happening?
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No, by running anything, noscript or adblock, you are opting out.
Opting in would require you to install something to make adverts visable. And that would have to be something that the site doesn't tell you about, either (show me a website that says "Click here to install adblock+ and remove all adverts from our website"). You would have to want to see adverts badly enough that you would research of your own accord what piece of software would make it happen.
That would never happen. If opting in was made man
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No it doesn't....
http://hackademix.net/2010/05/26/google-analytics-opt-out-snake-oil/ [hackademix.net]
Noscript does. And I guess they have to emulate google features to do it cause of the state of the web.
I said that Adblock+ works perfectly well, I did not mention "Google Analytics Opt-out Browser Add-on" which you linked.
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Used with adblock it's very effective.
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it's definitely a sleep taker if you catch my drift
No... I've never heard that phrase before...
The best way to avoid facebook getting your info (Score:5, Informative)
The best way to avoid facebook getting your info:
DO NOT SIGN UP FOR FACEBOOK.
Yes, they have alternate ways of tracking you and getting your information- but if you don't sign up for facebook you get more spare time, and less privacy stolen.
If you already are a member- quit now before you give away some other facet of your life.
Honestly- we all know how evil they are by now- so why do people keep using them? Is it really worth giving away every piece of information of your life just to play crappy games (that most slashdotters could write a better version of in an evening).
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And not going on sites that have a Facebook like button. Or are somehow affiliated with Facebook without telling you.
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Also, remember to draw up a contract forcing your friends not to tag you. I hear that most unsigned people have a fairly comprehensive profile based on information provided by others. Not the same, but still
Let me guess... you answer is get rid of every friend that signed up for facebook (and live in a glorious cave)? Reality has to set in somewhere. I minimize my exposure to facebook by only allowing facebook to run java script when I want to use every once in a few weeks (
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Yeah, I was buying cell-batteries the other day and the retailer wanted me to enter a facebook user and password so it could automatically insert a facebook comment that I had purchased batteries from them.
I remember thinking - WhyTF would I do that? Who on earth would want to post mundane information about what they buy online? IRS would looove to get a hold of their facebook profile no doubt.
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You're not facebook's customer people... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer. You're the product being sold.
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Seriously. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer. You're the product being sold.
That should be your sig line.
simply solved (Score:3)
Facebook will simply solve this by presenting their users with an annoying popup that only goes away if you agree (opt-in) to the new EULA.
So there's not much significance to all of this.
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If this causes Facebooks popularity to detoriate, more power to the E.U.!
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No license or contract can legalize a crime. The only thing a facebook EULA can do is provide a set of terms the costumer needs to respect to receive the continued use of the product. The EULA can not take away any rights, and it can not give facebook any additional rights.
Misdirected hysteria (Score:2)
Just How Gullible Are You? (Score:2)
Does anybody believe this any longer?
Just adds one click. (Score:2)
Datamine my life (Score:2)
I for one prefer targeted advertising (Score:2)
Say what you want about Facebook - but I like how the
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Seems like real, sudden outbreak of common sense. Go EU!. I am moving to it next year.
It should be much cheaper to move there next year.
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Re:More info here (Score:5, Interesting)
If they keep this up I might join you. The USA will probably make facebook accounts mandatory so the NSA can track us better.
Yes despite all the terrible press the EU gets especially in the UK, there are some nice things coming out of it like forcing mobile phone companies to all use mini-usb chargers. Sometimes I wish England would stop dicking about in EU and actually commit to something bigger than themselves for reasons other than personal greed.
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Yeah. Too bad you are all bankrupt and the Euro is collapsing.
Oh. Wait...
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You do realize the only reason the UK are doing fine today is because they took a lot of EU money a couple of years ago when they were in a crisis and the rest of Europe was not?
There are 27 countries. Not everyone can benefit from it at the same time. The EU exists to regularize things between member countries, so that they can balance each other out. Sometimes a country is at the bottom of the balance, sometimes at the top.
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Which is great until countries start actively gaming the system, spending wildly because "of course we'll get bailed out". A bit less cycnically, it's easy for a political leader to give money to the people, and wait on austerity until it's externally imposed, at which point it's not the leader's fault, it's those evil EU baddies. Which could all still work unless most of the countries happen to need a bailout all at the same time, which is pretty much where we are today - it's doubtful there's enough str
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I think one of the reasons the UK is doing ok is that they kept their own currency. Greece wouldn't be in such bad trouble if they still had their own currency.
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The UK has never defaulted on its debts and considering we invented the concept of a 'National Debt' that is saying something. There is no way we would give up that record easily as it saves us a couple of points on our interest payments in perpetuity.
I think we may have renegotiated a couple o
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Calling it a totalitarian state is an overstatement - for now, at least - but yeah, that seems mostly right. We (the Portuguese) are fucked too, yet sheepishly accept any and every imposition, despite being perfectly obvious that it just buries us faster.
Re:Best thing from the EU is the plane to NZ (Score:4, Funny)
I've chosen Brazil...
I'm not sure that's an improvement [wikipedia.org].
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Re:Why would FB care anyhow? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Why would FB care anyhow? (Score:4, Insightful)
EU Law and Court (Score:5, Informative)
It's simple. The EU is similar to the US Federal government. The member countries are subject to EU law where applicable, they have signed treaties to that effect.
If a member country does not apply the relevant law correctly, charges will be brought before the The Court of Justice of the European Union [europa.eu].
If the member state loses the case it will be subject to punitive measures until it corrects the situation. There is a lot to lose for the member country in question.
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I see you are also woefully ignorant of the EU and its workings.
Only someone woefully ignorant of the EU and its workings could expect it not to collapse.
Re:Nanny State! (Score:4, Insightful)
According to your logic, we should get rid of the police, the justice and the military, because protecting yourself and punishing perpetrators is solely your responsibility.