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Putin Threatens US Missile Bases In Europe

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the reagan-won-this-didn't-he dept.

United States 997

Melugo writes to let us know that Russian president Vladimir Putin has warned that US plans to build a missile defense system in Eastern Europe would force Moscow to target its weapons against Europe. This reader notes: "It feels like the Cold War all over again." "'If the American nuclear potential grows in European territory, we have to give ourselves new targets in Europe,' Putin said... 'It is up to our military to define these targets, in addition to defining the choice between ballistic and cruise missiles.'"

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I have a better idea (0)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377815)

Why doesn't he threaten to blow terrorists up with WMDs? You know, just to mix it up a little for once. I think that'd be much more interesting cuz Europe's probably just gonna be like "Russia sucks" and go back to suing Microsoft some more.

Re:I have a better idea (4, Funny)

The Clockwork Troll (655321) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378391)

I'm afraid it's more serious.

Monday morning editions of western European regional newspapers are verifying reports of construction of Russian SRBM silos in the southwest of France, where fashion sits: Putin armed Biarritz.

In soviet Russia (-1, Offtopic)

future assassin (639396) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377817)

First post nukes you.

Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (5, Funny)

adnonsense (826530) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377819)

As the post is crying out for it:

In Soviet Russia, strategic weapons target you!

(The best contribution wins a 10 year all-inclusive activity holiday to Siberia.)

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (2, Interesting)

thedarknite (1031380) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377847)

In Soviet Russia, you threaten strategic weapons

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (4, Funny)

fm6 (162816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377891)

Slashdot so needs this mod: -100: Old and lame!

Mod parent down (2, Funny)

Kj0n (245572) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378345)

-100: Old and lame

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (1)

NoMaster (142776) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378377)

It would certainly make the front page quicker to load...

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (1)

tiny69 (34486) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377917)

In Soviet Russia, missle defense system's target you!

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (1)

ajanp (1083247) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377979)

In Soviet Russia, strategic weapons target you! well...umm... maybe it's just too late for me to see how this makes sense as a Soviet Russia joke.... but strategic weapons DO target you (that's the point!).

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (4, Funny)

jibjibjib (889679) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378011)

In Soviet Russia, apostrophes misplace you!

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (1)

weighn (578357) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378039)

In Soviet Russia ... Moscow forces US plans

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (1)

ajanp (1083247) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378197)

Let's take a look at how this thread is destined to play out:


1. Legitimate one-liners:
In Soviet Russia, missile builds YOU!

2. Later on, off-topic one-liners that we still love/hate for whatever reason.
In Soviet Russia, iPHONE releases YOU!

3. Then we are almost guarenteed to see some /. zingers.
In Soviet Russia, threads mod YOU!

And by this time we can hopefully expect to read through a couple +5 Funny threads, laugh (and die) a little on the inside, and then move on to other posts/articles.

Re:Official "In Soviet Russia..." thread (1)

EvilSporkMan (648878) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378269)

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, the Cold War feels like you!

This is just Putin playing politics (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19377825)

The US defenses are oriented and located to where they will NOT be able to counter ANY Russion launches toward the US or Europe.

Just do the damned trajectory math. It does not work for much anything except stuff being flung from Tehran.

Putin is doing what Bush does, just rabble rousing to distract people from all the crap he is pulling behind the scenes.

Re:This is just Putin playing politics (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19377873)

Just do the damned trajectory math. It does not work for much anything except stuff being flung from Tehran.

You are a fucking idiot. The reason it would be more effective in defending from Iran than Russia is because Iran has less missiles.

Nothing whatsoever to do with trajectory math. Be glad you posted anonymously.

Re:This is just Putin playing politics (3, Informative)

blowdart (31458) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377921)

Just do the damned trajectory math. It does not work for much anything except stuff being flung from Tehran.

Share your math, because I don't see how. Placing a missile base in Poland, with, if the publicity is to be believed (and there are more unsuccessful tests than successful ones) the capability to shoot down incoming missiles two minutes after detection means that unless Russia is going to put missiles right on its border with Europe rather than their current locations then it is more than capable of intercepting missiles inbound from the Urals.

And of course why would you be protecting against Iran when (right now) the Shabab 4/5/6 missiles are theoretical? If anything the major threat to the US is (still) North Korea.

Re:This is just Putin playing politics (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378207)

Share your math, because I don't see how. Placing a missile base in Poland, with, if the publicity is to be believed (and there are more unsuccessful tests than successful ones) the capability to shoot down incoming missiles two minutes after detection means that unless Russia is going to put missiles right on its border with Europe rather than their current locations then it is more than capable of intercepting missiles inbound from the Urals.

The point for the US is that the missile shield does not protect the *US* from Russian missiles. And that point is correct. Russian missiles launched at the US travel north over the polar icecap, not across Europe. You don't take down a ballistic missile by launching a non-ballistic missile directly behind it. It won't be able to outrun the ballistic missile. Preferably you take it out by launching a missile at a right angle to it when it is launched or it is re-entering the atmosphere. The missile bases in Europe are useful for this purpose.

And of course why would you be protecting against Iran when (right now) the Shabab 4/5/6 missiles are theoretical? If anything the major threat to the US is (still) North Korea.

The US has moved significant anti-missile resources to Japan, including several AEGIS cruisers and Army PAC-3 systems. You need to pay more attention to the news.

Re:This is just Putin playing politics (5, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377965)

That is false. It actually will protect Europe from Russian, Chinese, NK, and Iranian launches. Why? Because this gets the rockets in cruise phase as opposed to boost or targeting. So anything that is coming overheard or just to the side will be blocked. The real issue is, how many missiles are we looking to put in? Not many. Russia can easily overrun our number with current inventory. The simple solution for Russia is to have verification of launchers/missiles. But it would be better for everyone if Bush would spend more time talking to Putin about this.

Re:This is just Putin playing politics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378263)

Yeah I think so too, but I haven't done the math, and I'm probably too stupid to solve it without help anyways. But for some reason I've admired a lot of Russian scientists and I kind of doubt that a missile defense shield against a Soviet attack would even work. Either way it's a bunch of political BS. So how about the survival of the human race and the betterment of life on this garden we call planet Earth?

Re:This is just Putin playing politics (1)

bmgoau (801508) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378395)

Im not agreeing with any of the conclusions this article is attempting to make, but i would like to let the parent of this thread know that scientists have successfully tested something called a "guided" thats right, a "guieded" missle, that is actually capable of flight that is not parabolic. It makes use of new high tech hydrogen and oxygen engines that allow the missle to control its direction of flight.

It is because of this new innovation that missle defence systems are scattered and not always directly in the line of a possible missle trajectory.

This is stupid (0, Offtopic)

furball (2853) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377833)

Let's think about this for a second. A missile defense system ... defends against missiles. So you're going to fight that by throwing missiles at it?

It seems what Mr. Putin needs is more artillery, not missiles. That's what I'd do if I was going to wage war against someone using a missile defense system.

Re:This is stupid (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377855)

No, it still makes sense

1)Missile defense systems are largely untested. There's large doubts to if they'd work at all.
2)Missile defense systems can be overloaded- shoot too many, and they won't catch them all.
3)Missiles have larger range than artillery. Its easier to shoot 10 missiles and let 2 or 3 go through than position and fire artillery.

Re:This is stupid (3, Insightful)

no-body (127863) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378073)

No - very smart!

There's large doubts to if they'd work at all.

Works great! A lot of money is transfered (well it is "spent") and nobody really questions the whole thing because it is to much money.
Nothing happens without a reason and a benefit for somebody. So - who benefits?
I mean, is there any doubt that normal, simple people actually could get along? Well, maybe no more, after being bombed and shot into pieces. Which also helps.

Maybe at one point it gets so bad that enough people really have had it. In USA with that news media - can take a long time.....

Re:This is stupid (1)

Simon Garlick (104721) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378323)

Missile defense systems are largely untested. There's large doubts to if they'd work at all.

Are you kidding? Purchasing officers, politicians, and defense contractors protecting billion-dollar contracts wouldn't lie!

Re:This is stupid (1)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377859)

Zerg tactics ofcourse... I'm sure Russia has more than enough missiles to overwhelm the missile defense system.

Re:This is stupid (1)

ajanp (1083247) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377883)

The missile defense system in question:

The United States made a formal request in January to place a radar base in a military area southwest of Prague, Czech Republic, and 10 interceptor missiles in neighboring Poland as part of plans for a missile defense shield that Washington says would protect against a potential threat from Iran.

The U.S. plans have brought a strong reaction from Russia, which accuses the United States of threatening Russian territory and of trying to start a new arms race.
Really? Does Russia seriously think that this system is meant to threaten them given the horrible reputation the US has at home and abroad right now and the host of domestic and foreign problems the country is dealing with.


I guess a cyber war against Estonia just wasn't enough for them... http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/17/124 8215 [slashdot.org]

Re:This is stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378361)

Russia couldn't hack it in the real world, so they elected Putin as proto-dictator and have been steadily reverting back to their paranoid Soviet days when everything was much nicer, apparently.

Just think, we used to worry about a sodden drunk with his finger on the Russian button. Putin is far worse; he's a paranoid ex-KGB man on a decade long power trip. The shadows, they move!

Re:This is stupid (2, Funny)

drgonzo59 (747139) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378389)

I guess a cyberwar against Estonia just wasn't enough for them

You mean the war that wasn't and was just a ... a hoax [wired.com] . Oh yeah, I forgot, we accept everything Slashdot feeds us as gospel. Good thing Bush doesn't read Slashdot, he might have decided to get his preemptive strike 'on'..

If he only had one missle per defense system, yes. (1)

attemptedgoalie (634133) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377885)

These deployments of missile protection systems are limited in their rate of fire. When they work.

The Russians are not nearly as limited in firepower as the defense systems that could ever be deployed.

Artillery is also an excellent target since it can't shoot something coming from so far away. If you have a defensive ability to knock 3 missiles out of the sky in short order, yet your opponent can drop 20 on you, you're screwed, and so is your artillery.

Re:This is stupid (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377895)

Let's think about this for a second. A missile defense system ... defends against missiles. So you're going to fight that by throwing missiles at it?

Yes, you are. Enough missiles going in & you overwhelm the defense system.

Re:This is stupid (1)

jsse (254124) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378003)

Thanks for your post finally surfaced so that we could comment on.

Any defense is effectively lower the ability of Russian to fight back when under attacked. Russian has all the right the tell the world that their nation is at risk of increasing threat against warfare.

You may still refuse to accept such bullshit game theory, but if I told you instead Russian has installed a defense system that could effectively block any attack from NATO, then I'm sure your president would alarm for the safety of his people.

And I'm sure Putin is the only one in the world who'd give WMD's effectiveness highest esteem. ^_^

Re:This is stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378071)

Russia's new RS-24 missle can (reportedly) by-pass ANY missle defense system in the world. Read up on that before opening your mouth and saying you cant throw missles at anti-missle defense systems. The germans threw Panzer IVs at the polish 35mm anti-tank guns and slaughtered them, not all anti-something weapons work.

Re:This is stupid (1)

jsse (254124) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378167)

You seem to ignore my last sentence: Putin can choose to ignore the fact that WMD sucks. He could have given WMD the highest esteem for his political manipulation.

If you hired a guy raise up his hands and tell the world that you've installed a new defense system, Putin would make the same threat, too.

This is politics, come on. He wants you put put down your defense, by politics not by technological superority. I found your technical detail interesting, but I also found my hand-raising defense system as effective, too.

BTW, I found irony in your righteous comment as an Anonymous Coward. ^o^

Re:This is stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378255)

It's missile, you ignorant twerp.

Re:This is stupid (1)

Wicko (977078) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378159)

No no no.. I think you missed the point. See, a missle defense system isn't all that handy if it isn't built. Note that he said US plans will force them to target Europe.

Re:This is stupid (1)

wall0159 (881759) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378195)

I think you meant to say:
"A missle defence system attempts to defend against missles"

The two aren't quite the same...

But anyway, this is just Putin's chest-beating in response to Bush's chest-beating - a load of bollocks to keep the gullible voters happy.

Re:This is stupid (1)

furball (2853) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378271)

"A missle defence system attempts to defend against missles"


Given enough time and effort, any endeavor is possible. What isn't possible now will be possible later.

Re:This is stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378387)

OK, I'm now concentrating on making your dog's head explode via telekinesis... I'm going to keep on doing this for a million bajillion years...

Re:This is stupid (4, Interesting)

drgonzo59 (747139) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378221)

You under-estimate the Russian missiles. US says that the defense systems are there for the missiles flying from North Korea. Russian missiles a lot more advanced than North Korean ones. Take this little puppy [wikipedia.org] for example. She is beautiful, isn't she!.
  An attack with those babies will not be stopped by the current generation of missile defense systems. It is _not_ a completely ballistic rocket. In other words predicting, calculating it's trajectory and using all the billions of dollars of infrastructure designed for ballistic missiles is not as useful anymore.


The competition between missile defense and missiles will mostly end up with a win for the missile. This reminds me of the competition between artillery and armor. There are certain artillery shells that no current armor can protect against it.

As a russian expatriate (4, Insightful)

iamacat (583406) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377843)

I call Putin's bullshit. Defense is defense, it's not necessarily aimed against US. Iran and North Korea could come up with some primitive missiles in a few years. A mere defense mechanism doesn't "force" anyone to target nukes at a peaceful country.

It's the whole different matter that the missile shield is ineffective and a colossal waste of money.

Re:As a russian expatriate (5, Insightful)

rumith (983060) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377947)

Sure, North Korea could come up with some primitive missiles in a few years... that's why the US must deploy interceptors in Europe, instead of Japan, Taiwan, or South Korea. Same goes about Iran: the US has huge military presence in Turkey, Kuwait and United Arab Emirates, why not use those bases?

Besides, something tells me that if Russia attempted to deploy similar ICBM countermeasures at Cuban or Venezuelan territory, all hell would break loose. Just because somebody is at peace with you now, doesn't mean that he won't be at war with you some time later, especially if you're dealing with the world's mightiest and most aggressive superpower.

Re:As a russian expatriate (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19377991)

Intercepters in Alaska will be able to intercept missles lauched off the Korean penisula. Not to mention the theater defense missles, and air born laser. For those to be effective in an Iranian scenerio the US would have to supply air dominance over the airspace between Iran and europe, against the will of nations which might wish to remain neutral, and in contravention of treaties, which in the US have the force of law. It's called an atlas. If North Korea wants to nuke Russia or China, fuck them anyway, who cares about stopping those. Not me. The instability of Afganistan and the internal pressures of Pakistan aren't insignificant either. But I'm sure the 15 seconds the Russians would have spent switching the targets on their warheads from the middle of the atlantic to actual targets would have made all the difference anyway. The fact that this "story" is being covered at all demonstrates how easy it is to manipulate the news when the people charged with presenting it are so ignorant.

Re:As a russian expatriate (2, Insightful)

bdjacobson (1094909) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378267)

if Russia attempted to deploy similar ICBM countermeasures at Cuban or Venezuelan territory, all hell would break loose.

What would we do? Sanction Cube to even less sugar exports to the US?

One day I'm going to "lol" when the other countries realize our economic sanctions mean nothing, because we don't have a middle class anymore and all the money is with the upper elite. In their greed to be rich they've killed their very future. The other countries will laugh at us and our sanctions and do whatever they darn well please; and we'll be able to do nothing about it.

Re:As a russian expatriate (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378309)

that's why the US must deploy interceptors in Europe, instead of Japan
How do idiots like you get modded up? The US has already deployed missile defense systems in Japan and has signed contracts to deploy more. Additionally, the US is selling Japan missile defense AEGIS cruisers. Was it too hard to fucking Google it?

Put down your crack pipe and your beer bong and start researching topics before making reckless assumptions, okay?

Re:As a russian expatriate (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378043)

I call Putin's bullshit. Defense is defense, it's not necessarily aimed against US. Iran and North Korea could come up with some primitive missiles in a few years. A mere defense mechanism doesn't "force" anyone to target nukes at a peaceful country.

Why don't we make a public deal that we'll not put missile defense there if Putin can stop Iran's and N.Korea's nuke programs? That's Putin the ball back in his court (pun intended).
     

Re:As a russian expatriate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378093)

No one cares what YOU think. Go back to your masturbation.

Re:As a russian expatriate (2, Informative)

0ptix (649734) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378109)

I think that's over simplifying things a bit. It's about changing the balance of power (at least in theory). If both you and your enemy have the capability to attack each other there is a balance; a detent. However if then your enemy develops and puts in place means to block your attack, even if the development is purely "defensive" the balance has now been scewed and the next step in the arms race has begun. This is an extreme example but imagen this on a level of "can block us more then we can block him" and you get to what Putin is talking about.

Note i'm talking theory here and not making any argument about weather this really applies to the current situation. After all, the US claims the shield is against single rogue missiles not huge swarms like Russia commands. But my honest opinion is that all of this are political, economic and strategic games and what the public gets to see and read is just the very tip of the iceberg, making the judgment of a meaning and intent behind a leaders statement a very tricky thing at best.

Yes and No (1)

dispatch (981884) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377849)

"Russia has not overtly targeted Europe since agreeing after the fall of the Soviet Union not to direct missiles against specific countries, according to Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst based in Moscow. He added however, that that was simple technical matter, since a missile can be given a target within minutes." - MSNBC [msn.com]

So yes it is notable that the missles *might* be pointed at Europe but it is not the same as "Russia builds missles targeted at Europe".....

Re:Yes and No (2, Informative)

af_robot (553885) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377995)

I think they were talking about cruise missiles, which Russia recently tested, not ballistic ones like Satan SS-18. Cruise subsonic missiles (like Tomahawk) are cheaper and much harder to intercept and they will hit the targets in Europe within 10-15 minutes.

Re:Yes and No (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378321)

The text you quoted is about missiles, but does it apply to your "missles" as well?

what defenses? (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377857)

what exactly are we talking here in regards to these defense in europe- because if it is that new fangled starwars like defense net Bush was talking about I hear the success rate is about 3/8

Re:what defenses? (1)

bhima (46039) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378165)

given the way the tests were setup that's more like saying you've got a 3 in 8 success rate with hookers.

putin just likes talking smack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19377861)

now i read some article somewhere last week that i can't quote and i don't remember where i read it so take what i say with a grain of salt. it was that the US was only going to have the capability in europe to stop only a very small number of missiles from a rouge state *COUGH* IRAN *COUGH* from shooting over 2-3 nukes at europe and that it couldnt possibly be considered any attempt to stop russia at all.

"Targeting" is just rhetoric. (5, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377867)

This is the same "targeting" rhetoric from the early 1990s all over again. Pretending that whether missiles are 'targeted' at some city somewhere, really changes the strategic position at all.

It's bullshit. Where a missile is 'targeted' has almost no real-world meaning. You can re-target a missile in a few seconds; in fact all submarine-launched and mobile missile systems have to be targeted right before launch, because the trajectories need to take into account the launch position.

The only scenario in which the 'default target' or preselected target of a missile might matter, would be an accidental launch. But even then, having the missiles aimed at neutral territory might not buy you much, because the unexpected launch itself might be perceived as hostile and engender a response; you can't depend on the mis-targeting for security -- that needs to be built-in to the command-and-control systems absolutely.

Re:"Targeting" is just rhetoric. (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377943)

"This is the same "targeting" rhetoric from the early 1990s all over again. Pretending that whether missiles are 'targeted' at some city somewhere, really changes the strategic position at all."

Cue to Kids in the Hall

"I'm crushing your head! I'm crushing your head!"

Vladimir Putin = Mr. Tyzik?

--
BMO

Chill Out, Vladimir!!! (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377871)

It's not as if the system actually works [google.com] !!

Jeez, I'd be scared... (1)

Audent (35893) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377875)

if I thought the missile defence screen actually worked...

but it doesn't. Which begs the question: is this security theatre played out on a large scale for our amusement and if it is then what's in it for Putin and Bush?

Just curious.

My suggestion? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19377903)

Have W. And Putin stand by an high-amperage electric fence and then give them a few beers. Sooner or later, one of the these 2 idiots will get the bright idea to have a contest to see who can piss on it. If we are lucky, they will both hit it at the same time. Or just send them out with Cehney to do some hunting. Issue will be solved.

Old, poor Russia... (5, Insightful)

thelima (1045360) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377931)

To cast little bit more light on the topic. America decided to locate this shield in Poland and Czech. Since the decision had been taken, Russia started to threaten both countries, we (Poland) have export embargo (for example for meat) and some "warnings" and "good advices" from Russia. Now they try to convince Us other way around... My posting is little bit biased - Forgive me, but I spent all my childhood under the Russian occupation and regime in Poland, sorry, could not resist. So before anyone starting shouting at Bush please - thing twice. First Russia occupied Poland, Czech, Slovakia etc for 40 Years, then, after the collapse of the communism, they were against joining NATO by Our, independent then, countries. Then they are against this shield. Technically shield located partially in Poland and in Czech is no threat for Russia at all, they now this. Also, technically, this shield cannot defend nuclear attack for this part of Europe. Please Russia understand that You are Our "supervisor" no longer, we are independed countries and taking Our decisions Ourselves. lima

Re:Old, poor Russia... (5, Insightful)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378057)

To follow up on this excellent post, I'd like to point out that I'm American and I've spent a good deal of time in Ukraine in the past. My Ukrainian ex-girlfriend had 2 great-grandparents who were murdered by Stalin's henchmen while her grandfather was forced to watch for the "crime" of supposedly being Ukrainian nationalists. Putin is drunk with power and money thanks to Russia's oil and gas reserves. Times are more or less good in Russia for people who live in bigger cities. Even for common people. They're making more money than ever before and they credit Putin. He not only has little real opposition, but what little there is has been suppressed by him and he's stacked the deck to be sure that his party and his eventual hand picked successor will become the next president. Putin is an ex-KGB guy and he laments the breakup of the USSR. His wet dream is to rebuild the USSR, but I think at some level he knows that won't happen, so he'd prefer to have vassal states that pay homage to him and give him a virtual USSR to rule. He flipped out when Ukraiane protested the bogus presidential elections in late 2004 and eventually elected Yushchenko in a fair election. He wasn't happy with what happened in Georgia first in the Rose Revolution, but I think until Ukraine elected Yushchenko, he thought he could just bully Georgia back into line. I have little doubt that Putin would love to tell all of the old Warsaw Pact countries what to do just like in the "good old days". The US has stated that they intend to put 10, yes, 10 interceptor missles in Poland. Since Russia has well over 1000 nuclear missles, this is just more of Putin's nonsense that such interceptor missles are a "threat" to Russia. My ex-girlfriend and her family knew first hand what kind of "love" Mother Russia gives to her children and I can't say I blame thelima for not being interested in falling under Russian influence again.

Possible Cause (1)

UnHolier than ever (803328) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377941)

Because US missile bases in Europe threaten Putin? Honestly, the rethoric is more threatening than usual, but where did you expect the Russians to point their weapons at?

Re:Possible Cause (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378209)

Honestly? I kinda of hoped Russia and the US would be past this infantile chest-pounding bullshit 10 or 15 years ago. Bush has played way too much cowboy during his presidency, but for fuck's sake, at least we're behaving somewhat responsibly sober as the only country to ever bear the responsibility for having USED a nuclear weapon in war. Putin's bringing back the cold war in a desperate bid to make Russia once again relevant on the world stage.

When I was a kid, a friend of mine told me stories that Russia had "big guns" pointed at the US and a bunch of other countries. For the life of us, neither of us could figure out why they would do that or why we would point at them. I learned later what a nuclear missile was, of course. It didn't make the thought any less horrible. Worse yet, even as an adult, the posturing and hatred STILL makes no fucking sense, save for its usefulness in inciting fear in the populace to allow you to assert control.

Bush has already found an infinite boogieman (THE TER'RISTS!) to keep people malleable and in fear. Putin could follow that and just get control of his own people, but instead he wants to posture against the world's remaining super power. The only reason I can see to do that instead is to gain control AND gain a place in the world spotlight again.

I just wish threatening to become the most PEACEFUL and least warlike country in the world could get the same amount of attention. Definitely would make me much more willing to listen to somebody.

All this shit lately about US vs Russia... (2, Interesting)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 7 years ago | (#19377999)

...makes me wish the EU to take a stronger stand. This isn't the cold war anymore where Europe was divided and I don't appreciate power plays over my head when the EU has more than enough economic might to not have to deal with this crap coming from the USA trying to install weapons in Europe and the Russians reacting to it.

Re:All this shit lately about US vs Russia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378069)

You sir are an idiot. The USA is not forcing these weapons in these countries, these countries have joined NATO and want these systems installed, because unlike you don't trust Russia as they were forced into the Soviet Union you know where you join or die.

Re:All this shit lately about US vs Russia... (1)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378355)

I don't think these countries want these US controlled systems. And I don't trust Russia, but the point is, I don't trust the USA one bit more either!

FYI, I'm from an ex soviet block country, so I guess I have a bit broader view on the topic than some anonymous troll from the USA.

Re:All this shit lately about US vs Russia... (-1, Troll)

budword (680846) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378349)

You ungrateful ass. You and the all of Europe would still be dragging your sorry asses out of a decades long economic hangover from communism if it wasn't for the weapons and protection of the USA. That is, if you weren't sitting around trying to figure out how to get the damn nazi's that a few hundred thousand Americans died to defeat, not even to keep you free, but to FREE your already defeated ass. Maybe the next time some fascist defeats your country in an afternoon we'll let them keep it.

meh (-1, Flamebait)

Rumagent (86695) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378063)

Dear mr. Putin

Go fuck yourself.

Sincerely
Every state not stuck in the cold war (you know, the one you lost)

Re:meh (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378299)

You have this backwards.

Unfortunately this missile sheild is from some idiots stuck in the cold war and trying to restart it. If they would stop listening to geriatric corrupt idiots like Kissenger perhaps there would be more interest in North Korea or Iran instead of putting a missile sheild in the north of Europe that would have been far too late to be useful even when Reagan was President.

It's from idiots that know they "won" the cold war but want a replay because they can't figure out how it happened.

Re:meh (4, Insightful)

drgonzo59 (747139) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378339)

And who won the cold war? Did we win it? That is what we want to tell ourselves -- that someone won and of course it is the almighty America. In fact if you study history you'll find that Soviet Union collapsed because it's economy collapsed. Soviet style communism simply does not work. We can shout all we want that we 'won' but it is more like the Soviet Union just slowly killed itself. So I guess you can say that you won a fight if the opponent gets the plague and dies in the process but it doesn't mean that you beat the opponent, you just 'won' by default.

You probably don't realize how much power and influence Russia has in Europe simply because it controls all the energy. It doesn't have to shoot any rockets anywhere, it just needs to shut down the pipelines. So you can keep cursing at Putin all you want if it makes you feel better, but Russia is a player that we will still have to reckon with.

And by the way one of these puppies [wikipedia.org] won't be stopped by our multi-bullion dollar missile defense system. Probably should have used that money for healthcare and better schools...Hmm, excessive spending on military infrastructure at the expense of taking care of it's citizens sounds familiar ... oh yeah.. Soviet Union did that. Perhaps we are not that different after all. Now that's a thought!

Russia has IP rights (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378067)

Russia has IP rights for rockets and missiles! They're just exercising their rights!

Mr Putin (4, Insightful)

LarsWestergren (9033) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378075)

Let's drop the pretense that Russia is in any way a modern democracy please. Elections are a joke, independent journalists are permanently silenced [usatoday.com] , and if you didn't order it you are certainly didn't doing much to investigate it. You are bullying surrounding nations as soon as they take any steps towards democracy or independence from you or displease you in any way [timesonline.co.uk] . Fascists [bbc.co.uk] and neo-Nazis [bbc.co.uk] run rampant in the streets, with the police literarily looking on with arms crossed doing nothing.

And even with all this, Putin has soaring approval ratings, proving once again that nationlist pride is one of the most dangerous memes ever.

Re:Mr Putin (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378245)

Putin has soaring approval ratings


According to whom? Would the sources be inside or outside Russia? If they are from inside, I would have serious doubts about that sources reputation. Hell, even doing international business with Russia is dubious at best.

I don't mean to sound like an ass, but Russia is corrupt as hell. Just WHO would you trust there? I feel sorry for them. I put far more trust in China's political and economic system than Russia's. That's saying a lot!

Re:Mr Putin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378347)

Let's drop the pretense that Russia is in any way a modern democracy please. Elections are a joke, independent journalists are...

Lets see how America ("the land of the free") fares here. Elections are a joke (check! - as a wise man once said about democracy - its not who votes that counts, its who counts the votes!), independent journalists are either thoroughly rigged (CNN is totally manipulated) to keep the American public completely misguided (see under WMD, Iraq war and what have you), and bullying "surrounding nations" (check! - If you count Iraq and Afghanistan as your neighbours). In Russia's defence at least it hasn't openly attacked any country in a good long time and neither has it dropped nukes on anyone. Fascists are all over the place - just look into you're own country first for heavens sake - the only thing differentiating "other" bullies and America is the level and sophistication of propaganda that makes Americans believe they're country is "fighting for democracy".

Cuban missile chrisis (1)

Oldsmobile (930596) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378085)

It's like the Cuban missile chrisis all over again, except this time it's the Americans playing crazy dangerous games with missiles.

Re:Cuban missile chrisis (2, Insightful)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378203)

It's like the Cuban missile chrisis all over again, except this time it's the Americans playing crazy dangerous games with missiles

FYI: the Cuban missile crisis was also caused by "the Americans playing crazy dangerous games with missiles". The placement of USSR's missiles in Cuba was a response to the US placing missiles in Turkey (with a comparable range to USSR's border to that of Cuba to USA's). Of course the US follows a different set of rules from everyone else and so while it claimed to be putting up missiles essentially on USSR's border for "defense", the USSR was not entitled to the same "defensive" distance for theirs. And the rest is history. Note that despite of all the posturing, the US missiles were eventually removed from Turkey (semi-secretly).

Re:Cuban missile chrisis (1)

budword (680846) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378285)

These are defensive missiles. There are no "crazy dangeous games" you CAN play with defensive missiles. If the USA was going to ever nuke anyone first, it wouldn't Russia. There is no doubt it would be North Korea or Iran, and the USA still hasn't done either. Pretending otherwise just displays your bias. Have fun with that, you are in the right place for it.

Re:Cuban missile chrisis (2, Interesting)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378375)

These are defensive missiles. There are no "crazy dangeous games" you CAN play with defensive missiles.

As many people already pointed out, there is no such thing as a "defensive" weapon. Every new defense upsets the balance of offense, and thus at best initiates an arms race, and at worst enables one side to overpower the other since a shield is in essence a way to decrease the power of the other guy's weapons, preferrably, from the point of view of the party with the shield, to zero. And thus allowing the shield-wielder to strike first, with impunity.

If the USA was going to ever nuke anyone first, it wouldn't Russia.

There is no way to predict the future course of history. Not so long ago a majority of Americans would be very offended if you had postulated that the USA will be engaged in invasion and occupation of whole countries based on fabricated evidence and questionable pet theories of deranged ideologues combined with avarice of certain corporate elites. They would be very outraged and incredulous if you had suggested that the USA would be running what essentially amounts to a Gulag network and that its top justice officials would be engaged in "what is the meaning of is" type of parsing of the Geneva Conventions in order to justify torturing the denisens of those Gulags. I could go on.

Domestic Message on a Global Stage (4, Insightful)

Shihar (153932) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378091)

This is nothing more then rhetoric for the domestic crowd.

The Russian objections to the US missile defense system are silly. Even if the system ever worked perfectly (it doesn't), it would never be able to stop more then a handful of missiles. Russia has more then a handful of missiles. The only thing the missile defense system can do is blunt an extremely small scale nuclear attack by ballistic missiles. Launch anything BUT that exact type of attack, and the entire missile defense system is worthless. Beyond this, the US has offered to include Russia in the shield, share their tracking data, in general, make a worthless defense against Russian attack even more worthless by making it transparent. North Korea, Iran, and anyone else thinking of how much fun it would be to hold a dozen nukes should be worried. For Russia, this is a joke.

Putin really is just playing to scare his population and score a few 'against America' points. It is a cry for attention and a desperate pleading to PLEASE start some verbal shit to keep his population focused on foreign 'threats' rather than some of the more crushing domestic issues Russia faces. If the Dems kill the program, he will happily take credit for scaring the American weapons of Russia oppression away... when the reality is that the Dems have always found the program to be a waste of money and are happy to tear into a lame duck president on the issue... not because Putin is a scary guy.

Look, the ballistic missile defense system is a joke. We already have one; it is called a few thousand nuclear missiles that can hit anywhere in the globe. I would be the first person to advocate throwing this worthless money hog on a chopping block, or at least relegating it to a lab for more 'research'. That said, Putin's saber rattling has nothing to do with reality. Putin knows that the ballistic missile defense program is a joke, and even if it wasn't a joke, it is only effective against nations with less then a dozen nukes... and it is safe to say Russia has more then a dozen nukes laying around these days.

If you want a real headline, make it this "Putin recall history and tries to invoke Cold War to score domestic political points, Americans continue to piss money into the wind and uphill". This is a domestic issue getting bounced around by a global media and nothing more.

Re:Domestic Message on a Global Stage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378407)

I completely agree. The reality is, is that the missle defence system is meant to stop one of two possible occurances.

1. A small scale attack by crazy mofos in North Korea or Iran. Since they only have a handful of missiles the small scale of the missile defence would be perfectly suitable for nullifying the threat from these countries.
2. An accidental launch. This has nearly happened several times, and in the event that a missile by some technical malfunction mistakenly launched, at least with a system like this in place it might be averted.

This really is just the russians playing politics in the region as they have in the past by trying to cut off europe from natural gas. These missiles are NOT a defence against russia that has thousands of nukes, as I doubt a couple dozen interceptors could do a whole lot to that aresenal, it's purely against rogue assholes and accidental launches.

and how is it that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378101)

And how is it that russia has its new found power? Well its all that oil that they now sell. It was a lot easier to keep russia weak when the price of oil was 20 $ a barrel rather than 60$. One could argue that the price of oil was going to rise regardless, because of chinese and indian demands on the supply. But president dumb fuck hasn't helped by destabilizing the worlds major oil producing region.

Fuck the missile defence.. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378111)

I'm from Europe and want no part in defending US soil by placing targets on ours. Well my country (Finland) isn't in NATO and thus not a bitch of the USA like Poland for example. I know the Czechs don't want that fucking system on their soil. It's so damn wrong if their government is going to force it upon them anyways. And it's not like the system even works.. You throw 10 missiles at it at the same time and at least half of them will go thru..

When will Putin learn that Islam is the... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378145)

...real threat, not the USA? His Chinese neighbors don't seem to realize that either.

Our three countries should be banding together to fight this so called religion of "peace".

Re:When will Putin learn that Islam is the... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378211)

If only. What leader is willing to name Islam as the enemy?

Money (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378175)

Uh...Where are they going to get the money?

Cold War II (2, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378183)

Let's see who can put the first man into space this time.

Mental illness feeds on itself. (5, Insightful)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378205)

Putin wants to increase the threat of violence because it allows him to have more control.

Bush wants to increase the threat of violence because it allows him to have more control.

Bush's actions give Putin a chance to increase the threat of violence so he can have more control.

Then threatening actions by Putin give Bush a chance to increase the threat of violence so he can have more control.

Mental illness feeds on itself.

See the free 3-part BBC movie: The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear [reallynews.com] .

Threatening violence is only one of the formulas of manipulation. Here are others: The Bush administration found support for war through manipulation. [futurepower.org]

(If you are a U.S. citizen and you don't like my summary of U.S. government corruption, you must write your own. You can't say you love your country if you abandon thinking clearly when your country is in trouble.)

What about the old missle defense system? (1)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378235)

You know the one where we both have missles so no one shoots?

Conspiracy theory (4, Funny)

tm2b (42473) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378239)

Bush and Putin are geting together for a nice friendly sleepover in Connecticut. They get into their pajamas, have a pillow fight, and are sipping the hot chocolate that Barabara Bush brings them.

Bush: So, Putey. We have a problem here in the US. We don't have a rubber stamp Congress any more, but our milkies [that's what he calls the Military-Industrial Complex] need their allowance. We need some sort of way to make sure that they'll be getting their money even with a hostile Congress. A big threat of some sort, just like during the Cold War - you guys had everyone so scared nobody would challenge a vast military budget.
Putin: Da. The old days when I could get my GRU and KGB buddies everything they needed out of the huge military budget are long gone - it was bad for the economy, but great for us! These days, we have more resources but the people are scrambling over whatever crumbs organized crime leaves behind. We need a unifying opponent, who will let me get those citizens and mob bosses solidly back under my thumb. We too need a new Cold War - the Chechnyans just aren't doing it for us.
Bush: Great! Ma!
Putin and Bush together: More Ovaltine, please!

"It feels like the Cold War all over again." (5, Insightful)

XNormal (8617) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378249)

Yes, only this time Europe goes dark without access to Russian natural gas.

Perhaps the French had the right idea with going 80% nuclear for their electric power needs.

Hmmm... (2, Insightful)

EaglemanBSA (950534) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378257)

It's not so much that the Cold War is starting all over again, but that it never really ended.

Central Europe? (1)

jenik (1030872) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378259)

Just look at the map...

just got done watching dr. stangelove (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378283)

seriously i just now got done watching Dr. Strangelove and this is up on /.
crazy!

best missile defense system (2, Informative)

polar red (215081) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378293)

The best missile defense system is ending this excessive military spending, it seems like we're going back to the cold war! Everybody rolling muscles does NOT bring security ONE step closer.

Re:best missile defense system (1)

Tanuki64 (989726) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378369)

I am not sure of this. I grew up in West-Berlin. And I felt much safer during the "cold war". I there was a way for me to donate money for more Russian missiles, I would do it. America just needs a strong opponent to keep it in check.

ALl those reply are forgetting one point (1)

aepervius (535155) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378295)

Let us forget the occupation for a moment and concentrate on the heart of the matter : an increase of defensive/offensive arsenal inn poland by the US in czech and Poland is directly aimed at Russia. Naturally Russia will then react and try everything from economical to political pressure.

The US would do exactly the same if Russia were to put more defensive/offensive arsenal in (hypothetically) cuba, or mexico city.

Now if you want my opinion, No bonus point for neither the US nor Russia for not pursuying disarmement while lambasting Iran or some other country to try to build nuclear arms. And lately the US instead even make it worst by stirring the bee hives.

Yawn... (1)

etnu (957152) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378303)

Doesn't Russia know that nobody cares about them anymore? The only country that the U.S. fears right now is China, and China isn't going to start a war with us any time in the next 50 years.

Weird to me. (1)

rayvd (155635) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378313)

This must be Putin/Russia's way of attempting to stay relevant somehow? It seems pretty obvious to me (and must be also to the Russian military) that any sort of US missile shield would have no chance in heck of stopping a nuclear barrage from Russia. The system is just not good enough. It's really only capable of taking out a smaller strike by only a few missiles. This in no way would be able to offset a "mutual destruction" type scenario...

I just don't see how this is a threat to Russia at all.

It's just gotta be a tantrum aimed at riling up the Russian's old foe for old time's sake.

Great Title ??? (5, Insightful)

eyeb1 (522766) | more than 7 years ago | (#19378363)

Great title .. "Putin Threatens US" ..

who is threatening who ???

ah!! .. glorious news speak .. formerly called propaganda ..

really what chose do the other countries of the world have ..

given the current ..

and in truth very old american imperialistic foreign policy .. and the trillions of dollars america and it's allies .. flavor of the day .. are pouring into the stockpiling of strategic materials .. new weapon and detection systems including nuclear .. significantly increased strategic FOREIGN military bases .. and a stated intention to weaponize space ..

after all .. america is the ONLY nation currently with FOREIGN militray bases of any significance ..

under the specter of "ur either fur us .. or agin us"

and just as in the past .. all started by the robber barons of america and it's allies of the day ..

sold to the american public .. this time .. under the guise of fighting (read: military escalation) an "unending" global war on terrorism ..

after all Wolfowitz did in fact call it World War III .. WAR= We Are Right

and just as in the past it's really all about profit .. only now with the Cheney's master plan fully implemented .. the outsourcing of the US military .. and implementation of a substantial global mercenary force .. operating outside of any goverment oversite or control .. even more so ..

when corporations go to war it's always about money .. regardless of the rational .. ethical .. or moral justifications made ..

it's really all about the ME and MINE and the BOTTOM line ..

Stay the hell out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#19378367)

How about the US keeps it's grubby little paws out of Europe.
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