Microsoft Threatens To Withdraw Windows in S.Korea 536
RocketJeff writes "South Korea's Fair Trade Commission (FTC) has been investigating Microsoft since 2001 for violations of South Korea's antitrust rules. According to a Reuters article, part of a recent Microsoft regulatory filing states 'it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea.' Basically, Microsoft is threatening to take their marbles and go home if they don't get the ruling they want."
Good strategy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Interesting)
Gaming is fairly big in SK also, somehow I think 'it runs on WINE' isn't going to fly.
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
But it runs on the Playstation probably is.. Its also a huge market for games, so this might make people write/port their games to non-Microsoft operation systems..
Re:Good strategy (Score:2, Insightful)
And how up-to-date they like to be, I don't think MS could stop existing copies of MS Windows from running. And I don't see WinXP++ only games coming out all that soon.
Then finally what about buying abroad?
I don't think it'll be an issue, one way or the other.
Re:Good strategy (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Good strategy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good strategy (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Good strategy (Score:3, Insightful)
Granted, they can pull Korean Language support out of Windows Vista though.
Re:Good strategy (Score:3, Insightful)
First, South Korea isn't known for piracy any more than any other country. Second, piracy is rampant here as well as it is there as well as it is anywhere in the world. Just because you have a better explanation for stealing you music in the name of media-should-be-free rants, doesn't mean piracy is only rampant in South Korea, China, and other countries you know nothing about.
Cheers.
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Good strategy (Score:4, Insightful)
I did a simple google search (piracy in south Korea) and found the following interesting articles. I may be wrong, but it does look like S. Korea is known for a major amount of piracy And is my opinion that we (United States) are no way as close to the piracy in other countries like South Korea as we tend to fear repercussions and law suits more then other countries do...
http://www.mpaa.org/PiracyFactSheets/PiracyFactShe etSouthKorea.pdf [mpaa.org]
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117907504?catego ryid=1009&cs=1 [variety.com]
Piracy losses (US$ millions) $27 million
Seizures (all items) 231,514
Piracy level (Video & Optical Disc) 25%
"Piracy has been on the rebound in South Korea since the economic downturn in 2001 and 2002. Historically, piracy of high quality, counterfeit videocassettes has been the most prevalent in the market. However, in 2003, there has been a significant increase in the number of DVD imports and optical disc burner operations in South Korea. In addition, duplication facilities of videocassette plants and now burner labs have become larger, more secretive and more sophisticated with technology. This signals a shift from the historical trend where piracy duplication facilities had small and medium capacity.
South Korea's cat-and-mouse with piracy [com.com]
"With a piracy rate of 40 percent to 50 percent, according to various estimates, South Korea has become one of the hot spots for cracking down on illegal software."
Again I may be wrong but it seems that your statement is unfounded. - Cheers!
Re:Good strategy (Score:3, Funny)
Wow, $27-trillion! That's more than half of the global economy in piracy in South Korea alone. If we could eliminate global piracy, we would all be hundreds of times wealthier than we are now!
Re:Good strategy (Score:3, Interesting)
No. Microsoft, Disney, and the other Corporate Overlords would be hundreds of times wealthier than they are now. You and the other mere consumers, on the other hand, wouldn't see any of this wealth.
In fact, it seems that this is the only thing that stands between Corporate Overlords and total world domination. If
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
Does not really matter, as it's not like MS can reclaim already existing Windows installs. It may create some annoyances for people planing new deployments or upgrades, but existing install will not be affected in any way. It's like if Ford decided to stop making cars, it would not cause all the Fords currently on the road to stop working.
Re:Good strategy (Score:4, Interesting)
It's like if Ford decided to stop making cars, it would not cause all the Fords currently on the road to stop working.
That reminds me of a story about how Cuba is filled with classic American cars from the 1940s and 1950s that are (for the most part) still well maintained and still on the road after all these years. They can't get new cars easily because the closest nation won't trade with them and for the longest time neither would most of the Western World.
Granted, software isn't automobiles and there are ways around it (run the American version, pirate it, switch to linux, etc.) but it's kind of amusing to think of an entire nation running Windows 2000 and XP 40 years from now.
Re:Well, for now... (Score:3, Funny)
Fords do that.
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
Right...that should convince the South Korean government (and the rest of the world) that they're not an abusive monopoly.
I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. I would just like to see them do the same throughout the rest of the world. Start threatening to take Windows out of the various world markets and see the wonders it does for OSS alternatives. At the very least people will begin to prepare migration plans and so on.
Re:Good strategy (Score:2)
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good strategy (Score:2)
Clause in Longhorn EULA to come (Score:5, Funny)
Windows may not be used and is not licensed for use in any area of South Korea because they are big doodyheads and we don't like them any more.
Re:Clause in Longhorn EULA to come (Score:3, Funny)
25. PRO NORTH-KOREA PROVISION
Windows and Office Suites may be used on all computers operated by North Korean nationals and Governmental agencies free of the usual licensing fees.
Want to lay odds on North Korean ballistic missiles running Windows vs. South Korean defense systems running Linux? ;)
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to wonder, is Microsoft's future sales of Windows starting to look so bleak that Microsoft needs to play poker with their customers? I know that yesterday's quarterly report was not the greatest, but I didn't think it was bad enough to start warranting this type of chair-throwing behavior with South Korea.
On a side note, since this news broke, if any CIO manager who is dependent upon Windows is not starting to look for strategic alternatives, that IT mangaer is not doing his or her job.
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Funny)
Steve Ballmer is reported to have said "Fucking South Koreans are fucking pussies. I'm going to fucking bury that country, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to fucking destroy South Korea."
In other news, Microsoft are reported to be engaged in talks with North Korean leader Kim Jong-il regarding what Ballmer calls a "synergistic exchange of resources; in exchange for free Windows XP Home licenses, Microsoft will receive the use of North Korea's dedicated military personnel and hardware, including 'cutting edge nuclear technology'".
It was noted by analysts that Ballmer was "unusually serene and satisfied looking" during this announcement. The reason for this is as yet unclear.
Re:Good strategy -- No, BRILLIANT (Score:3, Insightful)
This could be the best thing to happen to the OSS world since Mr. Torvalds and RMS began collaborating on some projects...
Korean Strategy: All Microsoft IP declared Public (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't play hardball with an independent nation..
Tomrrows Headlines:
Korea declares all Microsoft IP, Software and Copywrites to be in the Korean Public Domain. All Microsoft Offices Nationalized and documents seized for "National Security"
Re:Korean Strategy: All Microsoft IP declared Publ (Score:5, Informative)
Diclaimer: IANAL, but I am a law student.
As much as that (semi-humorous) thought would warm my heart, South Korea is a member of the World Trade Organization [wto.org], which requires signing the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights ("TRIPs") [wikipedia.org], which incorporates the Berne Convention [wikipedia.org] by reference.
What does this mean? It means that South Korea is obligated to recognize foreign copyrights, and stripping that protection for (arguably valid) nationalist reasons would almost certainly be in violation of international law. I haven't had a chance to fully and formally study the documents in question, but I would be shocked if there would be no recourse by the WTO.
- Neil Wehneman
P.S. Berne is a major impediment to full and free reform of copyright on a national level, as it mandates signatory countries to grant at least a copyright term of life of the author plus fifty years.
Re:Korean Strategy: All Microsoft IP declared Publ (Score:3, Interesting)
It means that South Korea is obligated to recognize foreign copyrights, and stripping that protection for (arguably valid) nationalist reasons would almost certainly be in violation of international law.
The Berne Convention only requires a minimum copyright length and that countries treat foreign copyrights the same as they do their own. If Korean law allows or can be changed to allow the confiscation rights from abusive monopolies there is no conflict. For that matter, the Korean courts can just declar
Re:Good strategy (Score:5, Interesting)
Then the E.U.
Now South Korea
How long until every government jumps on the $500,000,000 + bandwagon of suing Microsoft?
They really don't have many choices. Now they are at the point where their only answer is: "We don't negotiate with terrorists."
Re:Good strategy (Score:3, Funny)
I know it's old-fashioned of me, but I think they could try to manage their business legally and ethically.
Silly thought...
Oh, that's fine! That's fine! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh, that's fine! That's fine! (Score:2, Funny)
In Korea (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In Korea (Score:2)
ROFL (Score:2)
Re:ROFL (Score:2)
If Microsoft do this, consider a PHB motivating a Microsoft strategy to his bosses:
Talk about losing credibility in the market place all over the world!
Deep Thought said it best (Score:5, Funny)
Their software (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Their software (Score:5, Funny)
Of course not!! (You must be new here)
Re:Their software (Score:3, Insightful)
NO. THEY DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHERE THERE PRODUCT IS SOLD. THEY ARE AN ABUSIVE MONOPOLY. They've lost the right. That's why we r-e-g-u-l-a-t-e them, even if Bush's government won't touch them because they hate monopo
No. (Score:4, Insightful)
Anti-trust regulations (if well administered) make markets slightly less free overall, but they remain MOSTLY free. This is an attempt to preserve as much freedom in the marketplace as possible.
MOSTLY free is better than NOT-AT-ALL free.
If you regard free-market as a binary condition, then a more accurate statement is that market freedom is inherently unstable, eventually requiring regulation to prevent descent into abusive monopolistic environments. As such, free markets would be a poor standard by which to judge an economic environment because it would describe only immaturity of the market. Gauging market freedom on a continuum is a much more useful way to consider its effects on the market participants.
Re:Their software (Score:5, Insightful)
They should be allowed. That doesn't mean they're not jerks if they do.
Re:Their software (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Their software (Score:4, Insightful)
This *MIGHT* be true, and I stress "might". But what's to stop S.Korea from buying copies from their neighbors, or heck, legalize flat out piracy of it. Sure Microsoft can pull out but that doesn't mean it's not stupid.
Re:Their software (Score:2, Informative)
A little thing called the Berne Convention [wikipedia.org].
Re:Their software (Score:4, Insightful)
South Koreans buying it from neighboring countries would be a win-win for MS; they get the South Korean sales, but none of the pesky regulation.
You are 100% correct. (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course this is
-everphilski-
Re:You are 100% correct. (Score:5, Insightful)
And here's a thing: a nation doesn't maintain free markets to enable companies to do whatever they want. Free markets are maintained for the benefit of the common good, so that prices are kept sane, product can't be embargoes on personal whim, and we the people have a market responsive to our needs, NOT THE COMPANY'S.
Corporations are licensed legal fictions designed to remove personal liability from the exectives of same. They exist for our purposes - the market is not kept free for their benefit, but for ours.
Letting busineses grow into monopolies, unregulated, will just create a new feudalism which will in no way be a free market enabling a free people. The only people "free" in a world without business regulations will be the owners of the businesses.
We regulate monopolies so we can retain free markets. That's not just Adam Smith, it's the law.
Re:Their software (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody said otherwise. (I now take a step back to avoid being hit by the falling straw-man)
It's very simple. Microsoft doesn't have to sell their software in Korea if they don't want to. Although they'd probably not be able to stop it, since it could be imported via a third country.
But if Microsoft does want to sell their product in Korea, they have to follow the rules and laws passed by the Korean government. It's as simple as that. Bitching about (in your mind) unfair laws might be okay if South Korea was a dictatorship, but it's not. South Korea is a democracy. Those laws have the support of their people.
Or are you simply some imperialist who believe you know what's better for them than they do?
Besides which, Microsoft isn't going to get out of Korea. They can't afford to. Not because of the money, but because it would create the incentive for them to switch. There are nearly 50 million people in South Korea. Whatever platform they moved to (Linux, Mac), it would be a huge boost for that platform, which would mean a much larger strategic loss for Microsoft than it would in terms of Windows licenses.
Microsoft needs to sustain it's monopoly to survive. Why do you think they're fighting the OpenDocument format so hard? They need to stop other platforms from becoming viable alternatives. And a large modern nation like Korea certainly has the resources to do so.
Re:Their software (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Their software (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that Microsoft is thinking about it is news, as well as why. Sure they have the right, but it seems the reason to do it is to threaten a country into doing what they want. (By leaving them outside of a technological loop, where everyone else is likely to have a product they don't.) This is interesting because: A company has the power to inconvience a country; Microsoft is acting like a bully; Microsoft obviously isn't seeing all the long-term implications of this.
If Microsoft succedes, they have proven a multi-national company can be above a particular country's law, and we may be on the way to an overtly corporate-run globe. If it is not a bluff and S. Korea calls it, OSS in all it various forms will get a boost, and we will get to see exactly how much power Microsoft has. If Microsoft backs down, they look like a scared bully and lose prestige. (Especally amoung governments.)
This is a high-stakes move from Microsoft. It will be interesing to watch. Most likely is some compromise position, which still shows a lot of power in Microsoft's hands.
And ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:And ... (Score:5, Funny)
Meanwhile, North Korea issued a Cease and Desist letter to Microsoft, claiming unlawful infringement of their strong arm and enigmatic negotiating policies.
Funny, that (Score:5, Insightful)
One question (Score:2)
Nothing to see here (Score:5, Informative)
So no, it's not a threat or a conspiracy
Right... (Score:5, Funny)
SCO is just the picture of normalcy.
Now if only we could get them to pull their products from the US, I would be happy.
Re:Nothing to see here (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA: "If the KFTC enters an order requiring Microsoft to remove code or redesign Windows uniquely for the Korean market, it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea," Microsoft said in a U.S. regulatory filing on Thursday. (Emphasis mine)
First off, that was disclosed in a regulatory filing, which was the responsible thing for Microsoft to do. They're warning their investors that should the ruling be against them, they will have to take steps to deal with the ruling which would cost them and their investors money.
Secondly, Microsoft isn't really being unreasonable. Irrespective of whatever reasons they chose to bundle these three pieces of software in the first place, they're bundled together now. There are many issues with decoupling them, not the least of which is the fact that the SDK for WMP and MSN are now included in Windows, and could cause breakage to non-Microsoft applications when removed. But let's assume for a second that not one app in the entire world uses either of these extensions to the standard Windows SDK. There's still the issue that decoupling these pieces of software will be expensive... If only Korea requires their decoupling, it may make more business sense to simply pull their product from South Korea rather than pay the costs associated with it.
Finally, Real Media (also mentioned in TFA) doesn't have a leg to stand on. Their product is inferior to their competitors' products in every way, so they chose to stay in business the old fashioned way: lawsuits.
I'm not pro-Microsoft. But I'm definitely anti-sensationalist media and anti-idiot.
An answer to a question? (Score:5, Funny)
"So Korea, why did you switch to Linux?"
Korea: "For a variety of reasons. First, Microsoft violated many of my anti-trust regulations. Second, because it is foreign owned and controlled, even it their home country is one of my allies. Third, TCO is very high. Fourth, I have had many security and quality issues with their Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none operating system. Fifth, Microsoft in response to the charges had threatened to slow or not at all release new products. And finally, because they took their marbles and went home."
"Their marbles?"
Korea: "Yes, I'm very disappointed, they had some very pretty catseyes and peeries."
Man. Are these people lazy, greedy or what? An entire country, with a considerably strong economy that DEC, Pr1me, Unisys, etc. would absolutely have sold their souls for. Microsoft can't have it their way so they're going to pull out. Blimey.i reckon not (Score:2)
it's probably been mentioned in a comment i missed, but there's no way they're pulling out... it's just FUD, trying to pressure SK into the ruling they want... if they don't get the ruling, they'll still seel in that country
It's a bluff (Score:2)
Since the whole point of their bundling was to prevent competitors access to markets, walking away from the market isn't exactly an effective counter is it?
I hope Korea calls their bluff (Score:2, Interesting)
That would be great! (Score:2)
Benefit to Linux gaming (Score:2)
Barring piracy, given the number of online gamers in South Korea, wouldn't this just encourage game developers to develop for other platforms?
If they had to develop for Linux because that was the only legally available platform that could run on their hardware with gaming support, then game companies would likely have the critical mass they'd need to start really building for Linux.
Even if they just wanted to continue developing for Windows, I'm sure a number of publishers would push a lot more support fo
Why Not! (Score:3, Insightful)
Good strategy by Microsoft (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing to see here.. (Score:5, Insightful)
So, if I'm reading it right, Microsoft is saying that they will either not release a "special" version of windows for S. Korea, or that releases will be delayed (presumably to create the modifications required by their Anti-Trust regulations).
This seems perfectly reasonable. They're not even saying they will necessarily pull windows from the market, it might just take them longer to develop the "MS Vista - S. Korea Version" than it would to release the standard. Nothing to see here... more Microsoft non-news.
Plus, if S. Korea is saying "play nice" and they say "no" outright, this is still well within their rights, there is no mandate that they must release software for the masses (In fact, SlashThink directly opposes this). More power to S. Korea if they think they can actually pull that off...
It's like the flight attendants always say (Score:2)
new business model? (Score:5, Funny)
2) insert shotgun
$$$ profit! $$$
Tsk tsk tsk (Score:2, Funny)
Marbles (Score:2, Insightful)
I hate to rain on the Microsoft bashing parade, but I think it's more like Korea saying: "We don't like your marbles, change them." And Microsoft saying:"Fuck you guys, I like my marbles the way they are, take them as is or I take them home."
So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think this is a great chance for Linux on the desktop to get a toe hold. All those complaining sound like the people who wish for something, then complain when they get it.
Woot! More MMORPG games for Linux ;-) (Score:2, Interesting)
-Runz
A dash of reality, here (Score:5, Insightful)
MS isn't going to pull out of South Korea. Everyone involved already knows that. The statement is just part of the usual grandstanding that always goes on with this sort of thing. They won't pull out because it's too large a market to just write off, and they don't want another country deciding to go with a competitor nationwide.
It's probably just accurate (Score:2)
Steve Ballmer quoted as saying... (Score:2, Funny)
Isn't that their right? (Score:5, Interesting)
The "if you're gonna be a shitty customer, I'm gonna ban you from my store" play seems perfectly reaosnable to me.
Re:Self evident Astroturf? (Score:3, Insightful)
The parent post simply asked questions about the morality of the decision, and as far as I can see, he or she has a perfectly valid point.
As far as business practices go, I don't know the details of the anti-trust rulings, but the South Korean market may simply not be big enough to justify complying with the ruling. If Microsoft has no intentions of complying with the ruling, but rather withdrawing from the m
The way I see it..... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Microsoft doesn't make a lot of money in South Korea, so they don't care if they're there or not.
2. This is just a stunt better used by an 8 year old rather than a mult-billion dollar software company.
3. Microsoft is desperate to hold on to its domination of the planet earth. After all, when you control over 90% of the desktops on earth there's nowhere to go but down.
Re:The way I see it..... (Score:3, Insightful)
4. By giving in to the South Korean demands, MS sets a precedent that other governments start to follow on a per-country basis, fragmenting the features Windows offers worldwide, raising the cost of Windows development/shipment and increasing the likelihood of compatibility problems for applications.
That's not too far fetched really. All you need is individual countries to start asking for the removal or inclusion of features and suddenly your easy to ship, globally compatible product turns into a ni
Procrastination ahoy... (Score:2)
Initially: If Google threatened to stop offering services for France/German users, they can get around those pesky censorship laws. I doubt people would be arguing there. In a millionth of a second, there'd be dozens of replies: it's not the same, killing someone and evading taxes are both 'crimes' but they aren't equal. Microsoft has been convicted and investgated for antitrust issues in multiple countries - I'm willing to go with "MS is bad".
That being said, MS still has the right t
Finally they (M$) do something right... (Score:3, Insightful)
S. Korea should invest heavily in Apple and then buy Apple PCs for desktops and use Linux for Servers... that will show Microsoft they aren't the only player on the block. They may have a lot of Marbles, but Apples are perttier and don't break as often when used.... Linux has great Smashers.... they're not pretty but they do the job really well.
As Microsoft packed up and left (Score:2)
Ambiguous (Score:2)
Why not Europe ? (Score:2)
It would have been a HUGE hit to the EC to say, hey weve got a solution you dont get any MS products anymore PERIOD
While it may have been seen as a bluff , closing a few dozen MS office woulda scared the HELL out of the European Commision.
Right or Wrong there is NO WAY POSSIBLE the EC Could have explained it was doing good when no customer in Europe could upgrade, buy, etc. The people would have dissolved the damm comission.
Microsoft said the same thing back in 2000 (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, Microsoft wants to pull the same feat again; should Korean government back down? Hmm, tough call. But if I were to make IT procurement decision for Korean government, it should be a sign that
Now all we need is... (Score:3, Funny)
Apt Comment by PJ on Groklaw (Score:2)
from MS Threatens S. Korea & "Just Say No to Microsoft [groklaw.net]
Why Monopolies are Regulated, Part 4,209: (Score:3, Insightful)
How Bush fucked us over, #34,451: appointing industry lobby lawyers to the Justice Department who simply ignored the findings of the courts, letting Microsoft go unmolested and whole at the beginning of this numskull's reign. The world will be paying for that for another decade.
Go Linux. It's the pinhole of sunlight you sight at the top of the rubble blocking the collapsed mineshaft entrance. We might make it out of here...
But what about? (Score:3, Insightful)
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?s
How unlike a Mob operation (Score:3, Insightful)
PJ makes an excellent point on groklaw... (Score:3, Insightful)
What would happen if Microsoft's proprietary XML format was used and Microsoft told Massachusetts that if they didn't get their way they would stop selling Windows in that state? How would the public continue to access their own public records?
It amazes me that some people can't see this danger.
Great point made over at Groklaw (Score:3, Interesting)
This is exactly the problem with proprietary file formats. I would say that Microsoft's statement is destined to show up in a large number of conversations about OpenDocument and why it's the right thing to do...
The door.... (Score:3, Interesting)
So... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Revoke their copyright? (Score:3, Interesting)
As for all the Linux zealots proclaiming victory, that's just foolishness. There are corporations in Korea that require Microsoft to do their work. Migrating these places would cost millions, if not potentially billions. Think of all the issues. Training users, the actual migration, new support staff, in many cases new hardware. The corporat
Re:Revoke their copyright? (Score:2)
Care to elaborate? The KFTC is asking them to unbundle certain software, not abandon the South Korean market.
Re:Having fun with Mr. Ballmer (Score:2)
Re:Having fun with Mr. Ballmer (Score:2)
Microsoft, in thus Mr. Ballmer, said some stupid things about the market in SK. That URL makes Ballmer say other stupid, and funny, things.
So, for those of you who don't read at -1, here it is again!
http://www.axisofstevil.com/djballmerfresh.swf [axisofstevil.com]